"Do you sometimes feel that to few players read the rules?" Topic

Now I know that we all have to brush up on the rules if it's been a while since we played a particular set of rules. But I've run into gamers that have never read the rules. Which is still kinda of okay if the game QRS covers 90% of the game play.
But sometimes they don't even bother reading the QRS, and just expect you or some other player to tell them what they need to roll. Aargh!
Is it just me.

That describes about half of all players in any game I've ever played. Maybe 75%.

Yes, too many players do not read ALL the rules.

Agree with Extra Crispy.

Tom

Just the other day I saw a group of 6 40K players, not kids mind you, waiting for the main player to return, they were not sure what they needed to roll for a str7 vs toughness 8 attack. Really? All the money and time and you don't know the most basic chart in Warhammer?

For playing on a once or twice basis – I don't mind – treat it like a convention game.

When played regularly, I much prefer people have a good understanding of the key concepts and rules. Not to the point of being a rules lawyer – but to be able to know them well enough to have fun and if needed reason out situations…

If the "new" rules would stop putting so many pretty pictures in their books… I might read more of the words

If I had a nickel for every time I've been the only player in a game who has read the rules … well, I'd have a pretty large pile of nickels.

LT

Yes, including myself!

I don't want to speculate on numbers but I am thinking at least half of players don't read a thing.

A lot of groups will have one guy who is the "rules" guy that runs the game.

I agree with EC, that at least 2/3, and maybe 3/4 of the players do not read the rules. At a convention game, maybe the percentages are even higher

Mike

When we play a certain set of rules, of which I dislike some aspects immensely, I find I need the chart and QRS sheet for basic actions for a turn or two…

Edit: I go to conventions to play rules I have never read (but read reviews of) to decide if I want to spend the money to buy the rules. I expect the GM and other players to assist the newbie (me) to get a handle on the basics. With multiple decades of war games experience I seldom find a completely new/unique game mechanic that cannot be learned in a turn or two.

If newbies are to be expected to read and know the rules as second nature we would never get players back for a second war game… Justifiably perhaps.

If I am not running the game, I have not read the rules of most of the games I have played. At conventions I try to find games featuring rules I have never played.

20 years later, someone reads the rules and discovers we have been doing it wrong…sometimes the table needs to be split, on one flank one interpretation stands, on the other side the correct interpretation applies (multiplayer games) 😬

Most have probably never seen or heard of the rules.

Sometimes?

Pssshhhh….

Unfortunately, I played in a game where the guy running the game hadn't even read the rules. He spent half the time with his face in the rule book mumbling to himself, while my opponent and I looked at each other dumbfounded. After a while he & I just stopped asking the GM questions about how the rules were supposed to work because we didn't want another 10 minute delay to get an answer.

"A lot of groups will have one guy who is the "rules" guy that runs the game."

Thats me. I don't mind, I like reading rules.

You expect players to read the rules? Ha ha. That's funny. Our group has a guy who knows all the rules by heart without ever reading them. They all somehow turn out to be corrupted versions of Fire n' Fury.

Most people don't know rules and the rest remember it wrong, including myself. So it is always a "council of elder librarians" as we either find the rule quickly or make up something that works for all of us.

If I don't read the rules, I have a built in excuse for cheating.

This has been an issue since the 70s, at least for me. I play a lot of board games so I read rules all the time and in the interest of supporting others' games I'll generally buy a set of rules that we're going to be using to try to help things out.

I think what really prevents our group (and I'm sure many others) from using some rules more extensively is that there are some where to have a successful game everyone needs to know the rules. For example, FOGR is a set of rules where trying to teach it to large groups for a one off game is a colossal waste of time. Everyone really needs to have the rules, have at least read the basics, and know what formations or special things their units can do. There's no way someone can teach everything you can do with the rules for each army. What invariably happens is that the game doesn't turn out well and the rules are set aside never to be played again, which in many cases is unfortunate.

Hmmm……. some rules are un-readable ! It pains me to say it, but the U.S. rules writers generally have a better approach to rules layout.

Extra Crispy is right. I think the reason for this is that most of the "popular" rules sets weigh in at at least 40 pages. probably more. A certain WW2 game has over 200 pages in its rule book. Some 80 pages of those are actual rules.

So it is no wonder players are not reading the rules all the way through or at all.

Also, Paarskool points out quite fairly that some rules are "unreadable"…as in very hard to read because they are dense/dry/unorganized.

In all cases, there may be a good game in there which is why people still show up to play.

I fully expect to see this phenomena very high at conventions because people go to play stuff so they can try before they buy.

I think maybe the "best" solution is to fit the actual game rules in 2 pages, and then fill the rest of the book with scenarios, campaign stuff and other "nice to have" bits.

Hrm, maybe something to try.

I would love to have other gamers read the rules, I think about 50% never have.

From the other side, lets hear it for the guy who does the work, reads the rules, helps everybody else play, and shows all around generosity for others.

Huzzah!

We should support him, but let's at least appreciate him!

andy

The group I'm in we try different rules sets all the time, often one player buys them to foist, er, demo for everyone else. There are sets where everyone buys a copy.

I do pity those who do not learn the rules – how will they every exploit the loopholes (not) doing that?

I know of one group who don't even have written rules…there were some typewritten docs out there but long lost. The umpire just makes them up as he goes…hate those games. The closest thing to a rules sheet is some faded QRS from Valour & Discipline.

My own rules are 6 pages long, and 4 pages of charts, which could be distilled down to two. The charts are all you need since the rules are pretty straight forward. No one reads them since my I hope my oral skills are enough.

I admit that I've been on both sides of the fence.

Kids never read the rules for RISK or Monopoly. They just play according to how it was explained to them, and resolve disputes themselves.

Why would wargamers be any different?

BTW, how many football players (whatever variant) have actually read the rulebook for their game?

Excellent points, Phil!

The problem with the vast majority of wargame rules is their length and/or complexity, which either puts one off reading them thoroughly or makes them impossible to remember.

I really like the rules by Andy Callan in Peter Dennis's Wargame the English Civil War book of paper soldiers: only five pages of simple, clear rules that only require a d6. That my brain can cope with, not 20+ pages of rules that are difficult to follow with several charts.

BTW, how many football players (whatever variant) have actually read the rulebook for their game?

None. But I guarantee, they know exactly all the rules relevant for their position as well as all of the general rules relevant to all positions.

BTW, how many football players (whatever variant) have actually read the rulebook for their game?

My daughter's rugby coach grilled the players on the rules before allowing them on the pitch for a practice or game.

Conventions are a different kettle of fish, but, with my ordinary gaming groups, I do have an expectation that people will have read the rules wherever possible. Most of us are busy people. If I make time to read the rules, I expect others to do so too, but I am often dissappointed.

Only rules lawyers REALLY read the rules,the rest of us just putter along.

Here's another twist…For our small group who plays a lot of Chain of Command…we all have read the rules, but come away with different insights on different facets of the rules. Meaning I know the ins/outs which has to do with any vehicles; move, fire, etc….but my oldest son knows the ins/out of throwing grenades in the open, in vehicles and in the buildings. I read those rules, but they didn't stick to me as such as I have to refer to our reference sheet.

But, completely understand where everyone else is coming from…very frustrating when your the only smart person in the room…mmm sound like work.

P.

If I'm setting up the game I don't mind being the rules guy.
I do dislike it however if it is someone else's game and I have to be the rules guy!

What is really bad is when you have read the printed rules but there are unwritten houserules you haven't seen when you encounter a new group. Seems the loopholes that emerge often defy historical tactics and you only discover that his units are supermen, never to fall, when you see them overrun your line just because he upped the ratings in some previous game you did not attend, or he felt cavalry are too weak against squares. Too many highly opinionated idiots in the hobby, including myself.

Arguments ensue.

"But that's how we have always done it"
"Then how come you don't let me know about it or at least write it down!?!"

I have seen a lot of people repeatedly play a rule incorrectly habitually, based on a first time sloppy reading. When someone later reads the rules and sees they have been ignoring a die modifier or something it can get crazy.

Read the rules. Read them again. Read them a third time. Apply pencil if needed if you are the GM. Shut mouth if rules have not been read at least three times. Read rules again before opening mouth. Make sure you also read the sentence before and after the rule you are upset with.

Not only do I read the rules, I can get an understanding of how they play from the written word.
….I'm a freak!