"Saxon battle formation" Topic

I have just started painting up a force of Saxons using the 28mm Gripping Beast plastics, something I have been planning for a while. However I need some clarification from our learned TMPers over how I should deploy them.

My understanding is that a Saxon army could consist of:

1) Small number of skirmishes
2) The Fyrd
3) Thegns
4) Houshold troops

So my question is this, were the Thegns deployed together as a seperatley unit(s) from the Fyrd or spread out across the frontage with the Fyrd supporting them?

The household troops then being deployed in the centre with the King/ Warlord.

Can anyone shed light on this or point me in the direction of a good book/ article?

Many thanks
Chris

I think it all depends on the size of the army. Under usual circumstances you have the household troops and those thegns of nobles with the king (or more likely duke – depending on the actual army).
Under normal circumstances you would not have much "Fyrd" in your army, unless there is a serious war going on, so that there is time to collect the fyrd and it is either worth it or necessary to do so. If planning war the first impulse would be to call in the nobles and their household troops, and perhaps elements of the local fyrd.

Usage of these troops would depend on the circumstances and ability of the leader. Afaik there is no standard template that was used regardless of what makes sense.

If you narrow down your request to a more specific time and/or area it would be much easier to work with.

Puster
Looking for an army around the time of Alfred the Great so 871-899ish?

Chris

To work out an answer I think we have to remember how Anglo-Saxon society worked.

At the top were the King and his great nobles, usually titled Ealdermen. These guys had their own mini armies, their retinue or household. These men would probably fight together and form what might be anachronistically termed elite units.

The Thegns were further down the social scale. Local landowners, that kind of thing. They might have a handful of retainers of their own depending on how wealthy they were. Being the local bigwig, these are the guys who ran things at a local level. So if the Fyrd is called out it will be the local Thegn who is organising it.

So if you have men from the Fyrd they are probably being brought along by a Thegn of some sort. I would guess that the Thegns would probably be with the Fyrd in battle, leading them.

The thing is, we have no detailed information how all this worked. They are called the 'dark ages' for a reason! When building your army, remember that personal relationships were the building blocks of military forces and society as a whole. In comparison, the quantity and quality of your kit was irrelevant!

I have read recently, from the likes of Ryan Lavelle and Paul Hill that the thegns were the Fyrd – maybe with a few Ceorl retainers each.'Fyrd' means 'army' as does the alternative term 'here'. There were c. 10,000 thegns in England in the late saxon period and therefore even a localized army could draw out a big force – for the period. So according to these authors, the old idea that that most of the army were Ceorls or 'Great Fyrd' seems to be flawed.

Also the idea of different troop types in Saxon armies being deployed sin separate units (except for skirmishers) seems to be an invention of wargame rules authors.

Hobhood et al: do we know much about Saxon 'skirmishers'? 'Skirmishing' seems to be the antithesis of 'shieldwall'.

Good point Billyfish.

The Battle of Maldon poem mentions bowsand arrows. However it could be interpreted that they were used to cause some initial disrupting damage from within or behind the main force before the lines met. Archers are mentioned as individuals – maybe there were 'snipers'. Again maybe the use of groups of 'skirmishers' is a wargame idea to stop Saxon armies from having only one or two troop types…

The stuff about the number of Thegns is very interesting, Hobhood4. I would imagine that most of them would have at least a couple of blokes tagging along.

I completely agree about different 'troop types' being a wargamers' invention…

As has been said, Thegns were a numerous group of minor nobles who held 5 hides of land. The 3 classes of Ceorls (commoners) were Geneats(the best), Kotholders and Geburs.
Together, they comprised the Fyrd.
A selective raising of the Fyrd would produce a better quality and equipped force as it was largely Thegns and Geneats.
There should not be a differentiation of 'Fyrd' and Theigns, as they are one and the same. Thegns would lead local Ceorls and inferior Thegns, or probably form the front ranks of Fyrd formations, with less well trained or equipped troops behind.

An exception could be the King's Thegns who were given land by, and whose loyalty was to the King…and later the Huscarls under the Anglo-Danish kings and subsequent monarchs.(Though even these would have had Fyrd-worthy Ceorls working their land)

This is a simplified description, but I hope its enough to help?

The number of thegns was probably more than 10K. That number is only if Ethelred's assessment of a helmet and coat of mail for every eight hides of land is used. If we go with the probable five hides per warrior raised, the number is c. 16K.

As already stated, thegns were the landholding class en masse. Thegns owed a kind of "fealty" to greater men than themselves, ranging from king's men to the followers of bishops and aeldormen. When an army was summoned, it was either by an aeldorman or the king or a deputy of such. All freemen were expected to muster in defense of their own homes and march up to a day's distance, at their own expense. Bigger armies that marched further did not take along the local rustics ("rustica gens"), but only the fyrd. This was all the thegns and their household warriors. The thegns were armed in full kit. The household warriors as much so as could be afforded. But it is safe to say that every man in the fyrd was at the bare bones minimum of kit, equipped with a shield and several weapons, which included a spear that could be thrown, and probably one to several javelins. A sidearm could be sword, axe or seax. The famous two-handed ax is not a feature of AS armies until the 11th century.

Formations were simple: an extended front, hoping to outflank the enemy's front, and the required depth to create solidity. This could be more than eight ranks and probably usually was. The rear ranks would throw over the heads of the men in the front ranks (the description of Hastings in this regard is very clear). There is no description of "skirmishers" out in front of the shield wall. The only other permutation of this is the number of shieldwall formations, or commands. At several of Alfred's battles there are two or more commands that obviously move and maneuver separately from the others. The use of a reserve is almost non existent.

The best armed men always formed up in front. They grouped around the lord's banner or standard. The shield wall was composed of each "retinue" of like-armed and ranked men arranging themselves beside each other….

I've almost finished an Anglo-Saxon army for 1066 and this information is all very welcome.

Thanks guys – confirms what I was leaning towards any way. Thegns to the front and hearth troops to the centre……all others supporting to the rear ranks

Cheers
Chris