"When did French lancers disappear?" Topic

I'm making lists of 42mm figures to buy for my 'Invasion of England by Dashed Foreign Johnnies' shiny toy soldier project. As we know, Britain was invaded simultaneously by the Germans, French, Russians, Chinese, Raisuli's Moroccans, the Young Turks, and some vaguely cannibal Africans from Bollygolla ('The Swoop', P.G. Wodehouse, 1909.)

Anyway, I note from a cursory run through my library that there are French lancer in 1870, but no longer in 1914 (although dragoons may have lances). I'd like a French lancer unit to face off against England's own 17th.

Does anyone know what year French lancers were abolished?

(Not that it matters when there are cannibals in canoes from Bollygolla on the beach at Margate).

At least you are making an effort, albeit a tiny one, for authenticity.

I'm not sure French lancers ever did disappear, they were still using them in WW1. However they may have been dragoons armed with lances.

French lancers in the Napoleonic Polish style (as opposed to dragoons with lances) aren't listed in the 1890 Koppen's "Armies of Europe Illustrated". I can only presume such lancers disappeared during the reforms of the 1880's following the disastrous Franco-Prussian War. I'm sure someone with more information can pin point the exact time lancers in czapkas disappeared from the French Army.

Cheers,

TW

seen on the French wiki:
"La France avait dissous ses régiments de lanciers en 1872 et confia, peu à peu, à partir de 1889, la lance aux autres subdivisions de sa cavalerie légère, dragons, chasseurs et hussards."

which translates into:
"France had dissolved its lancers regiments in 1872 and provided, little by little, from 1889, lances to other light cavalry units, dragoons, chasseurs and hussars."

no reference given.

but this is coherent with TW's thoughts.

Jack,

I find this a little bit troubling. The fact that you seem to be about to let an inconvenient fact get in the way of a good game makes me fear that you are losing your edge. Say it aint so.

Duncan

well as the French lancers were converted from dragoons it seems only fair that they are converted back to dragoons and get given a lance.

It's alternative history, so why not presume the lancers were never eliminated in the 1870s? Alternatively, why not equip other light cavalry with lances, as was done historically? Or perhaps you can just presume the foreign lancers picked up discarded British lances (and/or captured a depot or supply ship) and used them almost from the start of the campaign?

According to my copy of Heerschau Ueber die Kriegsvoelker Europas by von Koeppen (illustrations by R. Knoetel) which is undated but , from internal evidence must be late 1890's, the French have no lancers and their other cavalry have discarded the lance as well.

The military budget – for the moment – runs to two units of cavalry per side, so I'm going for 10th Hussars and 17th Lancer for the jolly old Empire, and one of Chasseurs d'Afrique and one of -- something else, for the French.

Cuirassiers have their charm, but they are heavies, and I want both sides to essentially match in 'weight'. It may have to be French dragoons, which (for now) I'll rate as lights rather than heavies. Because I can.

Pish tosh, make cuirassiers with lances, dare to dream man!

Give them armored horses too.

Freakin nice, Winston!

Aha! I found my copy of Detaille – the incredibly complete look at the French army done in the late C19th – and find that the lancers vanished after the FPW, mostly being subsumed into the dragoons and chasseurs. So, dragoons will do!

FRENCH WORLD WAR I lancers

French dragoons carried lances until and during WW1.

Take a look here (18th French Draggons in 1902): military-photos.com/18drag.htm

CLICK ON THE IMAGES TO ENLARGE THEM.

French hussars and dragoons carrying lances in 1912: link

French dragoons in 1912: link

French dragoons in 1910: link

French dragoon in 1914: link

French dragoons in 1914 (at the start of the war): link

Two more photos of French dragoons (taken in 1912)… They are not carrying lances, but I simply love these two images.

link

link

Don't forget the 103rd Light Llama Lancers. Originally raised as the Duke of Plazatoro's 103rd Light Horse, they saw serice with Whitelock's troops at Buenos Aires in 1807. Due to the fact that most of their mounts had died they were re-equipped with Llamas and locally captured lances… After seeing service in the Antipodes they beacme, albeit quietly, the Barking Yeomanry Lancers.

My apologies, my friends… This photo was taken during military maneuvers in 1908: link

A few more photos for you guys (click on the images to enlarge them).

French dragoons during military maneuvers in 1912: link

French dragoons on patrol in 1914 (start of the war): link

Here you go, Bashytubits and Mexican… French cuirassiers with lances (first decade of the 20th century): link

There were indeed plenty of French cavalrymen carrying lances until after WWI, but they were Dragoons, Chasseurs, etc, etc. The actual 'Lancier' regiments dressed in Tschapckas disappeared after the Franco-Prussian war and were never reformed.