"New Wave Games - why won't you call me?" Topic

Here is my personal horror story about New wave Games.

First a little background on me. I live in Alaska. During the summer and fall I work for the Alaska Fire Service - often 12 to 14 hour days in 21 day shifts (in the lower 48 states shifts are limited to 14 days, Alaska is the exception to the rule). I DO still have a bit of time to occasionally access the internet, and I get my miniatures "fix" through mail-order during the summer months.

I have ordered from Newwave before, with very few problems. The orders took longer to arrive than I expected, but in Alaska that is often par for the course. The one time that I had a problem (a missing part), I called them up and the person on the other end of the line was very helpful, and I got a replacement part in the mail about a week later.

BUT... Here's my horror story. And please read this knowing that I understand that this is the Xmas season, and stores are very busy at this time of the year.

This summer, I was pleased to see that Newwave was carrying the Grendel resin terrain pieces. I ordered several (on 8/18/02), put them on my credit card, and promptly forgot the matter as I went back to working crazy shifts fighting forest fires. Eventually fall fire season ended ended and I got my life back, and I realized that the pieces had never arrived. I contacted Newwave, who promptly replied with this email:

"Alex,

I would suggest either an exchange or a refund, for these items as we been having difficulties getting them back in stock.

GN10048 Barbarian Throne QTY:1 $10.99
GNF0078 Nubian Pyramid QTY:2 2 @ 32.99 = 65.98

Current backorder total = $76.97

If you decide on the exchange you will not be charged any additional shipping on the exchange. Please feel free to email me at returns@newwave.org if you have any questions or comments regarding your order.

Thank You
Rick
New Wave"

I requested a refund by email. This was not answered. I left several messages on their answering machine, and received no response. I then called my credit card company, who told me that because the charge was placed over 60 days ago (at that point), there was nothing they could do. As of today, I have sent Newwave 5 emails and left four messages COMPLETE with all of my information on their answering machine. There has been no response at all. The local police department in Alpharetta told me to call the better business bureau in Atlanta, which I did. Unfortuneately, they require all dealings with them to be in writing through snail mail. I am in the process of registering my complaint with them.

I feel that I have been INCREDIBLY patient, waiting several days to a week between each email and phone message for a response, in fact I was so patient that I passed the 60 day mark, and now have no recourse with my credit card company. I felt bad contacting the police, but what else can I do?? 75 dollars is too much money to forget about, but it's too little to sue over (small claims court?). I will pursue this until I get my money back, somehow, but They will NEVER get my business again.

Dear Alxbates,

When I am going to shop online, especially for miniatures, I visit forums ask for opinions and contact the company itself just to see how prompt they are with replying to my e-mails. This business is mostly composed by small businesses and you don't really know who you're dealing with. So I try and exhaust all possibilities before placing an order.

I understand that you've had previous dealings with these people but you've obviously not kept up to date with the forums and the opinions about NW. Check them out on this site and on the minidealer discussion forum in yahoo e-groups.

Anyway I hope you get your money back. Not for the money itself but because it's a matter of principle.

Logan

Initially I heard very good things about Newwave, and the first four or five orders that I placed with them over a period of about two years had no serious problems. Sometimes the orders came in a figure or two at a time, and as I mentioned there was once a missing bit, but I always got everything that I ordered in a reasonable amount of time, and the missing bit was replaced immediately.

Living in Fairbanks, Alaska, mail order is just about my only option for getting miniatures. There are two games stores in town - The Comic Shop, which only carries GW products (pretty much since I left working there), and Revolution Comics, which also carries mostly GW stuff, and a little Chronopia and Wargods of Aegyptus.

I helped manage a games store (the Comic Shop) for four years, so I understand that often these small or overseas miniature companies take their own sweet time in providing their products to the consumer, but I also realise that sometimes distributors LIE. Whether it is due to disorganisation, miscommunication within the company, or simply comtempt for the customer, or even (*GASP*) an honest mistake varies. As time goes on and Newwave remains unable or unwilling to reply to me, I feel more and more like it is contempt, and I don't like it.

It also may be criminal fraud, but I will need to wait for a reply from the Altanta Better Business Bureau to see what my options are.

-Alex

I can't understand why Newwave has problems getting product from Grendel. The company I work for, Battlefield Designs, carries the Grendel line and have had zero problems getting restocked or having back orders filled promptly (2-4 week window). I know for a fact that the two items you requested from Newwave are still in production at Scotia-Grendel. I hope the situation gets cleared up soon for you.
Merry Christmas

I've heard that sellers must ship product within 30 days of charging your card. Whether this is just good manners, credit card policy, or illegal, I have no idea. Anybody know more about this?

New Wave lost my business a year ago. There are plenty of relible and honest web sites to deal with. When I place an order I want it promtly and I want good service from whom I order from. My exprience with New Wave has been poor service, they piece your orders and probably hope you forget everything you order. They answer thier phones or emails only when they feel like it. And that is not very often. Everyone seems to have trouble with this company, My suggestion, Look at their Web site, but buy the products elsewhere. If not, you deserve their hassels. It's their MO.

Alex, if this message doesn't get a response, try posting in the forums at CoolMiniOrNot.com, which is sponsored by New Wave. I think the site is on their server, and posting negatives about the service might get a little more reaction for you.

Alex, I would recommend calling the Georgia Attorney General and reporting New Wave for internet and mail fraud. It is an established pattern of New Wave to deal politely with customers until after the "60 day charge back" window has expired and then stop dealing with them at all. New Wave still has about $50.00 of my money. I would also suggest writing to Visa Bank - not your credit card issuer but the "real" Visa bank and ask them to start a complaint and investigate revoking New Wave's Visa/Mastercard status -that would put them out of business quick. If you need support post your efforts here and you can download or solicit similar stories very quickly. I think you might get further than most of us being a firefigher after 911 this is the type of rip off related directly to your job and not being able to follow up in 60 days. Also try to tell your story to the local press in Alpharetta, mail them a letter and print out some of the complaint posted here and tell them to look up complaints at the local BBB - where I know I should have one posted. If you get the press involved, the authorities are more likely to get involved. You may also want to write the Postmaster for Georgia or Alpharetta and have them investigate mail fraud since these products are shipped through the U.S. Mail. Finally, write your Congressman I am sure they have had similar stories of Alaskan residents being ripped off by other unscrupulous merchants in the contiguous states who think there isn't anything you do about it. God Bless and Good Luck. Please keep us informed and let us know how it is going.

From everything I keep seeing about New Wave, I've taken to just using their website as a good "reference" for new minis
--and ordering elsewhere if possible!

KH

Look at the site see what you want then buy from another source. New Wave is the worst. I ordered figures in April and got some I am still waiting on on my back orders. They have never responded to any e-mails I have sent. They have lost my business. I dont understand how they can stay in business this way.

I suggest you read here:

link

Deane P. Goodwin

Andy Cowell -- The 30 time period is the time in which companies have to complete the transaction you initiate. If they are unable to comply, they are required by law to obtain your consent to either backorder or delay shipping of ordered product. The selling company is the party required to initiate this process, not the purchaser.

Deane P. Goodwin

Bummer, Alex. Always hate to hear NWMO horror stories.

For what it's worth, www.discounthobby.com carries many of the Grendel resin scenics (but not all of them -- that Nubian Pyramid is hard to get a hold of). I've ordered many of the blistered scenics through them in the past, and was very happy.

For alternate Egyptian resin scenics, you might want to check out www.armorcast.com.

Almost forgot -- if you really want to give NWMO a bad day, contact the FTC, who handles the 30-day mail order rule. NWMO knows about the rule, so they can't claim ignorance. The FTC can fine NWMO up to $10,000 USD per infraction.

The online complaint form is here:

link

Alxbates,
Several months ago I had problems with a New Wave order. Like you, I have ordered from New Wave for years and never had a problem. Then this summer it seems like everything went to hell. I couldn't get them to respond to my emails or phone calls. I posted a complaint on this message board and another person posted that New Wave has a message board that has a place where people can post problems with orders etc. If you scroll back through this section of the boards you will find the thread. As someone suggested from the thread I posted a really nice post about resolving my order problems...people said that NW deletes all flames. Sure enough I got a response and resolved my issues.
Granted NW should be shutdown. Granted they are imoral, cheats etc and we should all ban together to get a change in their behavior or shut their doors down but it is also nice to know that there is possible way to get your money back and you should try it.

Check out the Minidealer Discussion group on Yahoo Groups! link

There are many people on the group that have had the same problems and might be able to give you some more pointers on getting your money back.

Alxbates has been taken care of and also sent an email.

If you have any problems that need to be resolved please email us at either returns@newwave.org or credits@newwave.org and we would be more then happy to take care of you. Please include the first and last name the order was placed under, a contact phone number and the order # (Its the number in the top right corner of your invoice. This number is not necessary but it would help to speed things up)

Thank You
New Wave

What about my issue? why have you not donated to the food bank... oh yeah you claim small town no food bank. Address for company fro the BBB:

New Wave Enterprise

Alpharetta, GA

Alpharetta isnt that small and within driving distance to larger towns( atlanta) that do have food banks. Like the Bread of Life Food Ministries (770) 513-0492.

It was just a lousy $10 USD order that never was delivered and you couldn't even donate that money of mine to a worthy cause - in your name in the Holiday season...what #%*$#%#*$.

I strongly urge all gamers to attach the BBB (link) as a signature to all your gaming e-mails and urge all your fellow gamers to do the same. Soon enough if everyone does this the bad press will drive customers away and remove this black spot of the gaming community.

Just FYI.

I used to work about 10 minutes from the New Wave warehouse in Alpharetta, Ga. I could call all day and night and leave messages. No calls were returned. The company appears to be owned by a woman who's sister is the office manager. The warehouse itself is a small setup which does make good use of vertical space. They employ highschool students at minimum wage to stock the shelves. The entire office often goes to lunch all at the same time so around noonish Eastern do not expect to get an answer. The place is rather disorganized, but the people are nice if you visit them in person (which I realize is not possible for most of you). They will let you roam the warehouse freely getting what you need. They always seem to be out of complete sets of anything. The owner has never been in the multiple times I have been there.

~CC
On a side note...

New Wave was once a retail store in Alpharetta. I stopped going as the staff never bothered to look up from playing Magic to allow me to pay for my purchases or answer my questions. The final straw was calling the store to ensure that the latest shipment of GW Empire Troops were there so I could finish a unit. They were indeed and later that evening I drove 45 minutes from my home to the store. When I got there the stock was still in boxes. It had been in that condition for at least 10 hours. The store was covered in boxes so nothing had been done all day. The staff was again playing magic. As they were not uniformed it was impossible to tell who was working and who was a customer. I went around trying to locate where the Empire troops were. No luck. I stood looking expectantly at the lot of them with no results. Then I announced to the store that I needed help. Two minutes later a kid got up from a table as I turned to leave. He asked if he could help me. I related that I needed the troops. He said that they were still packed. I told him that 10 hours ago I had called to make sure the troops were in. He told me that only managers could go in and add them to the stock. I promptly walked out and didn't go back.

New Wave is a hit or miss situation. I would not buy from them unless I was 10 minutes away...called to make sure someone was there....got permission to stop by...and then ensure I got there a few minutes early.

Oh, and last time I mentioned that they were earning a bad rep and that the site was full of dead links...they were shocked.

Well, I have to admit that New Wave DID send me an email earlier today, stating that my credit card had been refunded, and providing me with a new email contact address. The email (again, from Rick in returns) states that the return credit will post to my card within the next two business days. I will post the results of the return credit transaction on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.

Thanks for the BBB link, Deane (love your reaper gallery on minipainter.net, BTW).

And in response to the post re: Armorcast, heck yeah - their stuff is excellent, especially for the price. I used to be a big undead player, and I've got just about all their skull walls and piles, as well as some of the smaller egyptian stuff, rivers, and so on. I wanted the egyptian stuff for Wargods of Aegyptus (Crocodile games will have a MASSIVE update on their website completed on the first of January, or within the first few days).

I still feel frustrated that it took posting to a message board to get a response form Newwave, but I'm glad it got the ball rolling. Now, to just wait a few days and see if the credit posts to my card as promised...

Alxbates,

Glad to see you are getting some action going on your problem.

I would also like to provide the following link for those who truly feel they are the victims of on-line fraud:

link

Complaints concerning internet fraud should be reported as it seems way too many people get away with fraudulent business practices over the internet these days.

Good for you Alex, but do follow up. I remember speaking to David Doust personally when he called my home about a bad order. He promised it was all taken care of and then promptly returned to ignoring all my inquiries when two more months passed with no order or products. So do follow up and don't wait a month or two to do so, you should be able to call your credit card company within a week and see if the credit is posted or pending.

...

It's been two business days, and no refund posted yet...
If It isn't processing by tuesday of next week, I'll post again with LOUD complaints.

It is too bad about the refund not being posted yet, this sort of thing gives a bad name to the rest of the people who do business online. I realize that it won't replace the money you are already out; but the company I work for, Battlefield Designs, has just put in an order to Scotia Grendel and I can add the two items on to our existing order. We are replacing a recently sold Nubian Pyramid anyway so it won't be a big deal to add another one and the Barbarian's Throne on to the order. I can also waive the shipping charges to Alaska. If this offer could be of any help to you, please feel free to contact me off the list at: pmac@battlefielddesigns.com. Thanks

Will do, thanks for the order. Despite my problems with Newwave, I still remain overall pretty optimistic about online companies - if nothing else, they have a vested interest in staying in business.

Will do, thanks for the offer. Despite my problems with Newwave, I still remain overall pretty optimistic about online companies - if nothing else, they have a vested interest in staying in business.

OK - Hold the phone!!! Just got the refund posted to my credit card today. Thanks, Newwave, it only took two months of complaints, five emails, four phone messages, contacting the Better Business Bureau, and posting a message to a high traffic message board to get results.

Thanks very much. I would rather have the miniatures in hand than the money - but it looks like battlefield designs.com will hook me up. I'm willing to pay a little extra to actually get the models this time.

I had to revive this thread because the exact same thing is happening to me. I placed an order with them in March (because I was ignorant of their horrible business practices - boot to the head!), received a few minis shipped separately over the next month - then nothing; the balance of the order never came. They didn't even return calls or e-mails. I eventually got a hold of them and cancelled the remainder of the order in May. Well, it's been a month and still no refund.

They have basically STOLEN my money. They have my money and I have no goods - and since I have no outstanding order with them, there is no reason for them to have my money. Where's my money, Rick?!

Aestivalis,

Try contacting your CC company. There is a US federal law requiring a vendor to ship product within 30-days of payment, unless they expressed a different time-frame on their web site (in this case), which you then agreed to, by placing your order. However, the law states that they must ship you your order within the specified time-frame, or they are guilty of mail fraud, a federal offence. If they contact you, and ask you to wait an additional length of time, they can extend the agreement, only if you accept the delay; otherwise, they must refund your money. That's the law.

Good luck with your CC company. Otherwise, contact your local Post Office, and also the Federal Trade Commission, as well as the State Attorney General's Office, of the state they operate from (Georgia, I think). Cheers!

There are links to the FTC, and some of the others on the minidealersdiscussion group.
groups.yahoo.com/group/minidealerdiscussion

I've "snipped" the address from Rex's post - it's no longer a valid address for New Wave.

Man, this thread had brings back memories. And Battlefield Designs did a great job of taking care of me!