"Team Yankee: What's There and Missing" Topic

OK
So I am a nitpicker
Then why do the Soviets have SAMs tocket artillery and IFVs while thr Americans do not?
The Hawk SAM was still in the American arsenal, the M270 MLRS was also in service as was the M2 Bradley.
Note: TY is set in the mid 1980s when the above mentioned were well in service. You do not usually shoot down ground attack jets with machine guns. The Air Land Battle doctrine included the MLRS and the IFV

Just because these things aint in the ovel does ot mean they werent there

You're just early.

The initial releases for the game focused exclusively on what's in the book. For example there are no German forces at all! They'll get to all of that I'm sure, if TY sells well enough.

Meanwhile you can pick up all that kit from existing manufacturers like QRF (which I sell in the US).

They've chosen to follow the novel, and apparently are using that for their rollout plans as well.

Lack of M60 MGs bugs me more, personally.

Of course, there are plenty of options for more kit, from other manufacturers, so those are worth a look.

I hope to do 1/100th, as funds permit, eventually, but for now am focusing my major effort on 1/144th scale, which I think will look best, despite the high relative cost of some of the minis compared to others.

Well done shameless plug there Extra Crispy.

I also agree with EC that if TY does well then Battlefront will release more models and expand the options such as the Germans and British. I still have yet to play a game. Of course I have not had time to assemble all the Russian kit yet either.

I'm a bit sceptical that we'll ever see a HAWK on a company level wargame other than as an objective or special rule. Chapparels though might be more realistic.

At the OP:

Kindly name any other launch of a ruleset with accompanying models that has introduced all items of kit used by all participants in the first release?

Apart from your own example I presume?

Battlefront really could not have been clearer about their intentions for the future development of this range. If you are genuinely interested in finding out, rather than just pointing the finger, may I suggest listening to the 2 podcasts from BF on the Breakthrough Assault webpage? Its all discussed there.

Early days, they'll get there. Going on their past release schedules they will go for breadth first, adding more national lists, and then go back to add depth to the earlier lists.

417, most historical rules have all the major players and kit ready, when the rules aren't tied to a figure maker

Granted, perhaps not ALL, however, the lack of the Bradley does seem like a major oversight at first blush.

Cynics like me will say that the lack of it helps market and sell more M113s instead, even during the height of the "Cold War", when they were starting to be replaced by the Bradleys.

Of course, many of us are interested in the earlier Cold War period too, so M113s are fine for that.

They've already said West Germans and British will be released later this year (assuming they meet their product rollout targets).

If some can't wait for West Germans/Canadians/Belgians/Danes, I have some surplus, 1/100th scale, plastic Leopard 1A3s/1A4s/1Cs, and Jagdpanzer Kanones available for sale, or trade, now – 5 of each model. Brand new, factory assembled, and just waiting for a paint job, and national insignia.

IIRC the Bradley barely even made it into the book. In fact, I'm hard pressed to even remember where it's mentioned, if at all, by name. Maybe briefly during the cavalry battle? So no big loss for the game there, but I'm sure Battlefront will release them when they are good and ready.

As for the M113, it's the exact same kit that Battlefront put out for their Vietnam expansion. So it makes plenty of sense to upgrade them a bit and release them for Team Yankee.

Do the people complaining that BF haven't released the entire arsenal of NATO and the WARPAC know how much plastic injection molds cost?

People like to whine about Battlefront like they are big bad Corporate™ gaming, but really they are small company that can't afford to dump millions on a product line that might not sell.

Yes BF have a marketing scheme in tying rules and models together. But they do a damn good job of promoting historical gaming outside the traditional grognard circles.

I do not think BF are evil and out to take over the world. I know they are smart cookies. I understand the reason for the limited TY release (okay I do not agree with all they released but can see the logic)

But it is not clear to everyone what they mean to bring out next and when. If targets are met, well how is that going? Are they on track or is TY not going to get more stuff?

From a commercial point you do not want customers or potential customers going to a different seller because they do not know what is being planned. Yes I have seen the hints on BF website , but am none the wiser as to when coming.

So not evil, but a tad poor communicators.

plenty of other makers of models out there already

BF could have included in their game rules the data and rules for all of the NATO and PACT forces without having to immediately produce all the miniatures.
I am suspicious that some of the vehicles or weapons that BF left out will create scenario or rules problems and so were left off to kick the problem to the next edition, an old wargame design tradition
And worse, by not including the data for the missing pieces, the TY BF gamer is tied to the publisher, unless,as I have seen with other incomplete rules, the gamer homebrews

BF could have included in their game rules the data and rules for all of the NATO and PACT forces without having to immediately produce all the miniatures.

Not BF's model. They're out to push the minis as much (more, in fact) than the rules. They're not going to release the data without a mini to go with it. You may not like it, but tough, that's their model.

The bottomline is that BF is a minis company with a ruleset to push their minis.

And consider this: What if BF (for whatever reason) decides to stop producing new minis (and the data for them) for TY before they fill in all those other AFVS (like all those Leos, Marders, Chieftains, Centurions, T-64s, BTR-60s, et al that were around in the Cold War)? Then what are you going to use for data? Homebrew? Without complete knowledge of the parameters BF uses? Good luck…

Which is why I've steered clear of anything to do with FOW/TY…

@ Saber 6:

most historical rules have all the major players and kit ready

Could you give a few examples of such releases please? With the best will in the world I can't think of any such immediate and comprehensive 'bang there it is – all there – all the nations, all the kit' releases?

In fact, the more I think about it, the whining that they didn't release the entire Cold War inventory in one flash bang release sounds more and more pathetic.

I guess, as the old saying goes, good for BF if that's the only thing anyone desperate to criticise could find!

Be advised: This is going to rile up all the FOW/TY fanboys out there; you've been warned…

Could you give a few examples of such releases please? With the best will in the world I can't think of any such immediate and comprehensive 'bang there it is – all there – all the nations, all the kit' releases?

You forgot the operative part of Saber6's comment:

and kit ready, when the rules aren't tied to a figure maker

If you want a list of rules that include all the pertinent data to play most if not all Cold War scenarios, well, that would include about all of 'em. Most, unlike BF, do NOT flog minis along with their rules.

As I stated before: FOW/TY is a set of rules that exist for the express purpose to push BF's minis. Which is a perfectly fine business model, if you're inclined to accept it (I am NOT).

In fact, the more I think about it, the whining that they didn't release the entire Cold War inventory in one flash bang release sounds more and more pathetic

Not whining, simple facts. Even if you wanted to field M2s or Leos or BTRs in TY, you can't; because BF hasn't done a mini (with the data) for it. And if BF doesn't ever release those missing minis, then you indeed have half a loaf…

If you like playing with half a loaf (until BF gets around to producing whatever mini), that's your problem. Me (and Saber6), like our rules to be comprehensive from the get go….

Actually, you can, since there are numerous unofficial stats available (some conjectural ones even provided by me here on TMP, and some others posted on the BF forums – complete with unofficial cards to boot).

My gaming orthodoxy is larger than yours!

So BF should have delayed their release until they had cheap, high quality hard plastic models, for all Cold War nations for all AFVs before releasing?

Well I for one are damn glad they didn't! And their apparently non 'comprehensive' rules have provided me and my mates with hours of great gaming which has completely rejuvenated my Cold War gaming.

I wouldn't call myself a 'fanboy' – I'm just someone who isn't torn up with jealousy that they've made a commercial success out of wargaming, but is happy to appreciate those of their products that enhance my wargaming, whilst appreciating that good product takes time to put into the market place if you are to stay in business.

But good luck waiting around for your 'full loaf'! Be sure and blow me a raspberry when a wargaming company produces a full set of cold war inventory, using hard plastic technology, and rules and supplements to match, in one fell swoop!

Even if you wanted to field M2s or Leos or BTRs in TY, you can't

You really don't have the ability to go on all the various fora and download those unofficial cards (as Mako advises?)

We have been doing this for over 20 years, and still haven't got everything (although you can expect to see about another half-a-dozen new vehicles over the month or so)

There are plenty of sources where folks have put in a great deal of work and time to produce 'unofficial" TY cards covering pretty well most of the Cold War forces.

And there are plenty of toys in all scales to do the same. No point in having a go at BF, who produced an initial release to go with a book.

I find Sabre Sqn a better set of rules, but no models or figures were produced specifically to go with them. This has not prevented me from building up a number of forces in 6 and 20mm to use with them.

Tally Ho!

I've been playing around with Sabre Squadron in 15mm Nick

The right question is:

Does it play a part in the book?

If the answer is "yes", then you have to look at BF to see if they have released it or not.

If the answer is "no", there is simply no way that any complaint can be laid at BF.

After this has been cleared up, then another question arises:

Will BF release other players in the background in which TY is set?

A question that can only be asked while knowing full that such releases would fall entirely out of the (initial) scope of the game, which is none other than playing the TY novel.

Then it is time to ask BF to release particular factions etc. Never complaining for as long as BF does not consciously create expectations only to let down customers after that.

They don't have MBT-70s and Objekt 279s – clearly the game is incomplete!

One good source of a few on Facebook:

link

Have a look, plenty of stuff, unofficial of course so you may not be allowed to use it in a competition!!

Tally Ho!

You'll be allowed to use it in our TY competition at the Hall of Heroes, provided of course you go over the stats and points with your opponent!

I agree with you on the MBT-70s.

Definitely want those babies……

If the answer is "yes", then you have to look at BF to see if they have released it or not.

Off the top of my head, they're still missing T-62s and the Poles (can't remember what tanks the Poles were using – might have been T-55s) from the book. Other than that, all the notable stuff from the book is present, afaik.

And, well, *I* don't want to be the poor guy who has to take T-55s up against M1 Abrams tanks…

As a reader of Fantasy (LoTR), Psych, humor and various general military history, I have never read "Team Yankee".

However its clear that everything generated for the game is from the novel. So for those like myself that look at the time period more than the book, its going to let down a few people.

But to be fair and Realistic, how can any one expect BF to release even a fair precentage of ALL of the Cold War Nations that could have or were in the book from the very start?
That task alone would cripple any game company.

Lets be Optimistic; I think it gives a lot of room for more "What If" expansions for the games future.

how can any one expect BF to release even a fair precentage of ALL of the Cold War Nations that could have or were in the book from the very start?
That task alone would cripple any game company.

Target! Stop!

But you know, if by some miracle they had, I reckon the naysayers would still be complaining!

"Oh Oh Oh, no fair, I can't afford to buy everything at once – they should have spread it out some…no way my mom is going to pay for all this…"