"GW hatred..." Topic

Trolling... trolling... trolling...

like a riverrrrrrrrr.

Aw come on guys ,we can make this THE longest running htread. GW raised their prices again. $3 USD for a bottle of paint. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm price hikes. Don't you love the smell?

Let the ranting/venting BEGIN!!!!

Sorry, I can't hate GW… I can be feel pretty sorry that they have all of that money and can't seem to do much with it (Other than selfishly produce MORE money), but.. They simply have a veritable monopoly on their market, and they (having spent some time with the big three of GW back in the 1980s) know what sells..

They VERY early caught on that there are certain "looks" that catch people's attention, and that they see as "cool"…

There is even a branch of science that is now devoted to this "certain something" that some people and things seem to have.

I can't falt GW for taking advantage of the same thing that I used to use to make money… And probably will again at some point (After I recover from what using that "Certain Something" can get you if you are not very careful with it)

Wow . . . only seven pages of posts so far??? Everyone is slacking . . . . . :-)

Joe

They DO NOT have a monopoly. They only have one if they are the large majority of the sales. They might be the largest, but not a monopoly. DOn't give them that. Though I did like the LOTR range (though the price was ridiculous), and I do like the Elysians and Kasrkins, I can find very little to like about GW. I do hate their practices, but more than that, this monopolistic idea frustrates me. There are other, MUCH better games out there. I just people were as open-minded as they should be. That is why, I believe, that Wargods and Warmachine are giving GW a run for their money in a lot of marktes.

There are only so many skulls that you can put on a figure before even the most pimply 14 year old nerd thinks that it looks dumb. I don't know where GW goes at that point…

"Wow . . . only seven pages of posts so far??? Everyone is slacking . . . . . :-)"

Maybe they are finally getting bored?

Apart from the WAB rule book I dont buy GW, I dont like the figures much because its fantasy. The scifi stuff isnt anywhere near as good as Stargrunt II rules and the figures are a bit grotesque t ba honest. The paints are quite good, some are a little on the watery side but the metalics are nice. They dont dominate wargaming because thay dont do historical figures and thats the main area of wargaming. Just like computer games dont dominate wargaming. So the shops are fine for picking up paint from.

Hammer

I now play WarGods, WARMACHINE, Flames of War and SST…Who's GW? :-)

I'll admit I own WAB and the new WMA. I find it odd that most of my historical game systems that I currently play* are by GW but my fantasy/Sci-Fi happens to be produced by other companies now!

*I'm a rules junkie so I do own many, many historical rule sets. Heck I even play some once in awhile like Trench Wars WWI.

I could hate GW, but it would ruin my enjoyment of anoying them at con with how they chose the wrong scale for 40k. 15mm make such better sense with the vehicle heavy armies an all…

And as a challenge to GW if you want my money do 4th edition in the right scale, I would go broke over if they ever did the Tau in 15mm…. But right now I am pleasantly immune to their marketing.

"V-E-R-I-T-A-B-L-E" monopoly…

Also… I have to say that I don't think I have played a GW game since the 1980s…

I have to agree with Infojunky about the 15mm stuff… I wouldn't go broke (Secret Ancient Chinese miniature secret…DOH!), but I would wind up with a LOT of Tau and Elysians.

I keep PRAYING (And bugging Forgeworld) to do some Epic Scale Elysians…

I also keep hoping that the trend I see to modernize the 40K universe will continue. It seems to be lifting itself from the meta-WWI/Napoleonic motif and into something akin to a Vietnam era look… WHo knows… Maybe someday it will be a full-fledged Sci-Fi game again…

But, they are squarely aimed at what appears to be a certain market that just takes a long while to realize that there is anything BUT GW in the world… pity…

GW are the fast food of the hobby, they appeal to the youngsters, but the older you get the better fresh home cooked becomes… and suprisingly enough the more money you have to spend on hobbies. I think the organisation has a few too many youngsters in it who dont realise how much is spent and how often, by us oldies. Their wares are as interesting as woolies toy section.

I just read GW's IP rules. This one is funny:

"You must not… Create, distribute, or use any material that is not consistent with the functionality, atmosphere, and parameters of the Warhammer universe as created and owned by Games Workshop"

Now, just what the heck does that mean, and how would they enforce it? Atmosphere?!?

just read GW's IP rules. This one is funny:
"You must not… Create, distribute, or use any material that is not consistent with the functionality, atmosphere, and parameters of the Warhammer universe as created and owned by Games Workshop"
Now, just what the heck does that mean, and how would they enforce it? Atmosphere?!?
————————————-
The Warhhmmer universe is fictitious and in fiction there are no parameters, you cannot claim to have ownership or control of things that have not yet been created. Your quote is legaly a none starter but I guess aimed at those who would be worried by the mystique of copywrite, which is difficult to prosecute unless its a straight lift.

Hammer

Its easy for me. I don't like fantasy, I think the figures/rules/worlds are ridiculous and there's so many good manufacturers out there that GW don't register on my wants lists.

Each to their own and this is my own.

Just helping to grow the monster.

ME TOO Pard!!!! I like GW and love the Warhammer historicals. I have all the books and read them every night so I can have sweet dreams of someone who knows how to make a free market work!!!!! My hero!

I'm sure I"m not the only one, but I've found a way to manage both my fondness for GW figurs (well, some of them!) and the distate for their marketing/pricing scheme: eBay. With a little free time and a little bit more discipline, you can find current figures for 60-70% off MSRP every day. The metal figures are the best, as they can be easily stripped of paint.

The trick is to know when to stop bidding, and also to have a very clear idea of how much the shipping is going to be.

This will be a shocker. The one good thing about GW raising their prices is I just auctioned off my 40k Land raider and made back the money I spent on it in the first place. Thank you GW.

Down side. I'm not getting very much for the worthless infantry.

This thread keeps going… and going… and going…

"I just read GW's IP rules. This one is funny:

"You must not… Create, distribute, or use any material that is not consistent with the functionality, atmosphere, and parameters of the Warhammer universe as created and owned by Games Workshop""

You have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha ha ha!!!! Who do they think they are!!!!

What a joke!

Greg

That is like saying "If you use our models for a NON-Warhammer universe game, we will prosecute you for it."

What non-sense.

Elitism gentlemen. Elitism in its raw form.

"Elitism gentlemen. Elitism in its raw form."

Welcome to the GW Hobby! :-P

"GW are the fast food of the hobby"

Now *that* has got to be the Quote of the Week. Nicely done!

Wow. I was away for just shy of two months and this thread is still going!

My favorite thing in their IP policy is when they say you can't combine their stuff in conversions with parts from other manufacturers and then you'll find White Dwarf articles mentioning the usefulness of historical model vehicle kit accessories for conversions.

And in their Rogue Trader and Ver. 2 days I could spot parts from non GW models in some of their vehicles, back then it was ok wasn't? They still do this themselves so I guess it's ok for them to use parts from other manufactures, but God forbid you actually do it. Do as we say, not as we do. That's called hypocrisy.

People wonder why does this thread go on and on?

Well, look at all the things GW insists on doing!

You guys want to make it for 350?

Come on, deep inside you know you want to do it!

What GW say about the useage of their products is of no consequence what so ever, its completely meaningless. Once you have purchased an item you can do precisely what you like with it, advertise it, sell it, display it, juggle with it…. I use some of their 40K Eldar I was given as paint tin aggitators, cut into bits with shears they are ideal…..

Hammer

Hammer, you're exactly right. The saddest thing is that people often see a company's "Intellectual Property Policy" as legally binding on them. Really a strange thing to assume, but it's what the writers of that policy want people to assume.

Good call on the paint agitators.

Nothing finer for Pansy Eldar.

Must… get this to… 8 pages…! ;)

How about this to keep it rolling….. Are GW missing a big selling opportunity by not having historical figures and rules in their shops. You cant get WAB in a GW shop, Why. The really big money has to be from much older wargamers who have it to spend and are commited to the hobby long term. Its as if anything not totally invented by GW is heresy. Yet their rules have been plagerised from a few much older systems.

*******I think that this is the main reasons why GW is disliked and dismissed by real historical gamers*****

OH… and rules for things such as – ridiculously oversized monomolecular chain-swords being waved about as a threat, in a future battlefield enviroment where targeters, image intensifiers, rapid fire, hard hit, explosive rounds are standard kit. Its just plain silly billy stuff

Hammer

I think GW avoids historicals because they can't put any kinds of special custom or elite weapons into the HQ's hands. I'm mean how effective could a relic weapon like "George Washington's Rifle" be the the hands of a character model like Patton?

Or "The Sword of Herman The German" for Rommel? GW likes giving character models stuff like this. It wouldn't go over well with historical gamers.

If GW went into World War II and then took on FoW…
Clash of the Titans?

Must reach Page 8….

Thank god for FoW for restoring balance to the galaxy.

FoW has a lot of the strange character thing going on, doesn't it? Can't you have Rommel or Zhukov right in there commanding a single company rather than being at HQ and doing things properly?

There is Rommel as a character in FoW but he did lead from the front lines sometimes (certain river crossing in May 1940). Otherwise, the characters were ones who were at the front lines. None of the "Powell strikes Saddam dead with the George Washington rifle and spotting him with the Georgr Patton binoculars" nonsense.

There is Rommel as a character in FoW but he did lead from the front lines sometimes (certain river crossing in May 1940). Otherwise, the characters were ones who were at the front lines. None of the "Powell strikes Saddam dead with the George Washington rifle and spotting him with the Georgr Patton binoculars" nonsense.

Still a ways to go to get to page eight guys. It is 50 posts per page. That is the secret. So………

INcrease the hate so GW gets to 8!!

I's 2 in the morning and I cannot sleep.

Yesterday we had GD in Moscow, and after it we were drinking beer with 2 GW reps from Eastern/Northern Europe. GW just has their own idea on how this business should run. The indep. stores owners asked them for some advertizing materials – "We don't advertize", to open GW-sponsored club – "it is up to you community folks", are you going to hire hobby manager for the country? – "it is too early to talk about it".
Look, WH is very similar to drugs. Addicts involve more people into the ring, so whether GW will do smth or not thay might still get some growth in sales figures, and price increase means more profit, too.
Though it is cinical position, but I understand that it looks attractive for shareholders. To them this business is no different from hamburger sales.
If GW tolerates pretty poor prepared and run events it is just bcs. it is for free to the company, dealer pays for all…

BTW new wood elves are incredible…this is a strong drug indeed :)

"How about this to keep it rolling….. Are GW missing a big selling opportunity by not having historical figures and rules in their shops. You cant get WAB in a GW shop, Why. The really big money has to be from much older wargamers who have it to spend and are commited to the hobby long term. Its as if anything not totally invented by GW is heresy. Yet their rules have been plagerised from a few much older systems. "

GW have no interest in producing historical miniatures because they can't *own* the IP for ancient troop types. For example, if GW wanted to produce some Greek Hoplites they would have to design, sculpt, manufacturer, package and advertise said figures. However, since they don't own the IP for what constitute a Hoplite they would have to price their product to compete with the other Ancients manufacturers Hoplites.

This would obviously have to be much, much, much cheaper than what GW currently charges for the miniatures ranges for their Warhammer and 40K games.

So you have:

(a) Less margin on the product.
(b) It consumes the same amount of store space as their "own" products.
(c) They can't dictate the pricing.
(d) They can't stop someone else producing other historical miniatures (in the same way they can if someone copies their own ranges too closely).

Since Space Marines fly off the shelves without too much effort in your average GW store, why would they waste time, space and money on a range of historicals? It makes no business sense for them to do so.

In their defense, running so many GW stores is a very expensive proposition. They also do a lot for the hobby (and for parents) by giving kids a good, safe environment to enjoy their games.

Personally I grew up on GW games – and this is going back pre-40k to Warhammer 1st Edition. I stopped playing fantasy games a good few years back, but I do now play historicals and I mostly play the "GW derived" games (e.g. WAB).

Regards,

Dave

My ha'penny'orth:

I bought LOTR figures. Price steep, but I thought 'hey well the quality is there'. Then I look closer. Miscasts, steps, cloddish undercuts. Brother-in-law whon used to cast for ALCHEMY looks at the drilled feeds sprouting from every extremity and ss with derision at the 'amateurs' efforts. Not big and not clever really is it?

Foxmeister, the real reason GW don't sell Historicals in the shops is that there are approx 20 GW players for every one Historical player, and GW see no point stacking their shelves with figures that will not sell. Thats also why they don't sell the other games they used to make in the shop – they sell their two core games, LotR and a few bits and pieces. Many of the Shops I know are so stuck for space they have to double rack their 40k and WHF figures. Think how many armies they would need to carry to sell historicals?

They are Business men who play wargames, but Buisness men justt he same.

Patrick,

I think we agree – but it isn't just space! If it were, they would produce historicals for mail order. They don't because they can't compete pricewise and maintain the sort of margins that they can achieve on their own home grown products.

As you say, they are businessmen who play wargames – hence products like WAB and Warmaster Ancients which in many ways are the pet products (though very good IMHO) of some senior GW staff.

If it just came down to the bottom line, Warhammer Historicals wouldn't exist.

Dave

Foxmeister, the real reason GW don't sell Historicals in the shops is that there are approx 20 GW players for every one Historical player, ????????

Patrick I think you must have conjured the 20:1 figure out of thin air, if not where are the figures from?

On small lad who buys half a dozen over priced figures and only half paints them, cannot be classed as a wargamers as by any stetch of the imagination. Thats like saying a person who has a game of 'pitch and put' on holiday is a golfer………

I saw only today in Battle Honours Evesham a little lad buy ONE….GW fantasy figure and pay £5….. for ONE (1) that is gobsmacking robbery without the violence. On the back wall were the Gripping Beast range… no contest in quality, the poor little kid is being turned over.

Hammer

I asked today in the Leicester store if GW were going to expand their rather derisory 3 dwarf archers and 3 infantry, I was told it was unlikely as there are 'probably only a few thousand people with dwarf armies'. Can you imagine any historical wargames company telling you they wouldn't do a major range of eg Patagonian pygmies or whatever because they'd only sell a few thousand armies? It puts it in perspective!

How did Nathaniel get titled to my post about Patton and "Washington's Rifle" crack?

And Foxmeister, I beleive your point is more legit than the 20:1 ratio. It's easier for them to market to basically a capitive group really that has no idea that there are other choices. Than to compete with a line of similar miniatures.

Just thinking about it there are a lot of 6mm scale games out there, but I started with Battletech long before I heard about Epic. So how can a game like Epic compete on a level playing field against Battletech and other 6mm games that were already dug in deep.

And this makes me glad there are no over priced 15mm GW models.

If GW promoted Romans and Barbarians or Vikings (eg) would they really not sell in large numbers? Its never been tried!

I'm a post stealing Ninja! No wait, it's probably just a bug in the forum software.

Anyway, I don't think GW will get into historicals more than they already have precisely for the reasons listed. They can't own the IP in the same way, there isn't the market there is for fantasy and sci-fi.

I'm actually a bit glad of it too. Imagine cartoony hoplites with spear handles as thick as tree trunks. GW's whole style is very "comic book" and while it's appealing for somethings, it doesn't really appeal to me for historicals.

Onward to 8 pages!

Yeah, the bug is now fixed.

And I would agree on the cartoon look of GW miniatures, almost every human has a build bigger than Arnold. Even in 40K the weapons are heavily oversized, and wasn't there a rule in old versions that if the trooper carrying the heavy bolter is killed no one can pick it up to use it. Why not? How can you loose track of something that big?

You'd think guys would get tired or get a hernia from lugging those grenade launchers around every where.

Conveniently "forgotten" from the old GW days, the heavier weapons and equipment had 'suspensors' to make them easier to carry. I guess they went the same way as the other Imperial budget cuts, like IG jetbikes and jetpack assault troops, Squat motorcycle gangs, Space Slann, etc.
Whimsy was at the roots of the early 40K magic, but now the GW tree has grown old and gnarled, and even started rotting on the inside….