"GW hatred..." Topic

OH! and let's not forget the BIGGY:

Battletech.

They not only spawned a series of MANY PC and console based games, but they also had those gaming centers…

As to GWs terrain articles and their articles on converting their minis…

Why is it that they always seem to ignore using parts from anything but other GW models?

I also wonder why GW gamers do not go to REAL modelling magazines to get REAL tips on modification? GW seems to act as if they created the techniques that they have in their publications.

Not that the techniques that they teach are not good… They just seem to have the same problem that many of their miniatures have:

High price… REALLY high price. I looked at how much they charge for a bit of ribbon epoxy… I think it was like $10 USD or $12 USD for what you can get for $2.95 USD at the hardware store.

If you go to an art supply store you can get various epoxy putties or duo-adhesive strips for about half what they charge in the hardware store (per unit)… In an Art Supply store you will have to by a LOT of the ribbon epoxy or milliput (About the equivalent of a pint).

I guess that if you have no idea that this sort of thing can be done they are doing a service to let people know that such things can be done, but they really should supply a bibliography of other sources. It smacks of plagerism to not mention that the techniques have been in use for about a hundred years now (For some of the things they teach: Creating miniature terrain has been being done for museums and model railroads since the early 20th century.

Judas Iscariot: "It smacks of plagerism to not mention that the techniques have been in use for about a hundred years now."

Well, I don't see the real modelling magazines that I am reading mentioning the origins of the techniques either.

And I would not call it plagiarism to write about techniques that are general knowledge.

Griefbringer

Q.. who is the company that are now selling plastic fish tank plants at ten times the price you can buy them at in pet shop or garden centre and suggest that they thought of this fantastic idea and they are specially designed for their tables?

Oh and bags of fish tank gravel and railway flock and files and tweezers and wire snipers etc etc…..

Happy Hammer :-)

@Hammer – We've already moaned about those 2 items!

Try again! :)

Renegade Legion: Interceptor also spawned a computer game (a semi-decent Wing Commander clone).

Oh, btw: What would be a good "real" modelling magazine?

Back when I was a card-carrying member of IPMS, I got their local newsletter but generally found it useless. I also have some Hobby Japan's lying about, but while nice to look at, I don't read japanese.

I _don't_ want kit reviews.

I _don't_ want pictorials of the "real things" giving details which boltheads to model in 1/72

I _do_ want "how to" articles with plenty of good quality photos.

Sure, a magazine can't be just the things I want, but e.g. the IPMS newsletter was mostly kit reviews which are useless to me. No point in subscribing to a magazine if they run 1-2 articles per year that I really want to read.

maxxon: have you tried the local "Pienoismalli" magazine, available for reading in a lot of better stocked local libraries? There is usually some interesting articles around (though I do not really care for all that RC and model railway stuff).

That said, I would like to know about good English language ones, too.

Griefbringer

I buy wargames mags but everytime I occasionally thumb through a military modeling magazine why is there always and I mean always, an article on painting ceremonial drum horses and one on 18th century troops with those infant school/first grade hand drawn and coloured/colored pictures of blokes in tricorns/Washington hats :-)

Hammer

'cos thats what the poeple that buy those magazines have on their shelves, and all the 'cottage industry' companies that publish them can afford. You want fine artwork and articles that are relevant? Wargames Illustrated has raised its game a lot recently.

Pat

"Why is it that they always seem to ignore using parts from anything but other GW models?"

Because they don't SELL other people's stuff? Jeez, this is so obvious even YOU could see it! But seriously, they do indeed often mention a lot of items that they get at the DIY stores, so you are wrong on that count…

"I also wonder why GW gamers do not go to REAL modelling magazines to get REAL tips on modification? GW seems to act as if they created the techniques that they have in their publications."

What makes you think they don't. Everybody I know does. But disregarding your typically rash generalizations of every single GW gamer, if GW writes it as if they invented it, who cares? As long as the gamers are actually making scenery, it's a GOOD thing, right?

"Not that the techniques that they teach are not good… They just seem to have the same problem that many of their miniatures have:

High price… REALLY high price. I looked at how much they charge for a bit of ribbon epoxy… I think it was like $10 USD USD or $12 USD USD for what you can get for $2.95 USD USD at the hardware store."

No argument there. GW does charge a bit too much for some of their peripheral products. But for some folks either don't know any better (THEIR fault), or have nowhere else to go to get the stuff conveniently. It's a free market economy out there— if people look around, they'll find what they want cheaper. You and I know better— why get upset about it?

The plagiarism charge is just plain silly and not worth addressing any more than Griefbringer already has…

The thread has come up with lots of reasons not to LIKE GW products, to disdain their games and to look down on some of their customers. I have not yet seen anything that justifies HATE. Yet Hate there is. Can anyone explain the HATE?

pAT

I just wanted to add my thoughts on this: i hate the prices and the current look of warhammer 40000 but i do love the universe. i have been playing since i was 12 and am 23 now. I like the Metal/dune/ww1 way it presents it self but i would like the rules to go back to Rogue trader and 2nd edition days. Why people hate GW is because the prices just rape your wallet!

The staff don't actually hit you over the head and take your money do they?

There have also been at least 2 of Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear computer games as well. But as Judas has pointed out Battletech is the big one. Under FASA Battletech went one better, there was even an animated series of Battletech. GW hasn't even done that!

Love em hate em. Miss the good old days of Rogue Trader, the old style of some of the minis, the old Land Raider, the old space marines, clean simple, the old eldar pre-craftworld, deadly, running, raiding. The old orks, just dirty and grungy, green and mean. Clunky rules mechanics, little support in the way of codices, my goodness you actually had to use your imagination to solve rules questions, or roll it off. Now it seems that GW has become the Imperium it created, life imitating fantasy, imitating life. Rick Priestly, Andy Chambers, Perry brothers, John "Blanchitsu", and the many others thank you for a fantastic universe, game support, and raising the bar enough that everyone had to take notice whether they liked it or not. Have a pint on me and Game On!

@Mr Chodes – "Blanchitsu", blimey that brings back memories!

Sargonahres: "Under FASA Battletech went one better, there was even an animated series of Battletech."

Wasn't early Battletech itself heavily inspired by an animated series called Robotech?

Griefbringer

Early Battletech drew a lot of designs from existing "Giant Robot" shows, with Robotech/Macross being one of the main ones.

However, the game never "felt" remotely like RoboTech to me, so IMHO BattleTech's only inspiration was visual.

To explain hate…

Hate is just the manifestation of fear.

People fear that GW are going to either swallow the industry or destroy a part of it that they hold dear.

Those are just two examples.

There are other examples of why one might hate GW.

Suppose that an Ex-employee was privy to both sides of a business deal that GW was doing. Suppose that GW promised the company that they were working with on a licensing agreement some point or another, and then, once that promise was made; they hung up the phone and said "As soon as the ink is on that contract, do exactly what we promised that we wouldn't".

I have heard that there have been a few instances of this happening… That could cause people to fear to do business with them, and actually hate them for unethical business practices.

Then, maybe someone made a game that GW was producing, and they worked long and hard on that game; only to have the guts ripped from it to be replaced with something that was less quality… Another practice that I have heard them accused of…

That could produce a deep resentment, which is basically a fear that 1)people will associate the author of that system with low quality work, and 2) that GW would do the same in the future to other products that the person may be under contract to produce.

But, those are just hypothetical situations…

The fear produced by GW is not, though. GW are the lumbering beast that consumes all before it. The Behemouth. Leviathan, who rose from the Abyss to devour the earth…

People generally hate what they fear.

I do not hate GW… I dislike their business practices and some of their marketting policies. They distort things that I held in esteem, and continue to warp the perceptions of some sub-cultures that I was instrumental in building in the US… I have a hard time NOT hating them for these things, but my religious beliefs tend to promote a rational and universal view of others actions. They may be reprehensible to me, but there may be something that I do not see… In any event, I can work to make sure that these things are corrected in both my own life and that GW will eventually reap what it has sown… If I can be an instrument in bringing about that karmic collision… All the better for it…

And… perhaps "Plagerism" for the most part is hyperbole, but I have seen things in both White Dwarf and other publications that seemed to be borrowing a bit heavily from other sources. I wish that I had the time and resources to go back and find the articles that I remember, but it is really not that important enough…

They will eventually get what they deserve, both good and bad, for their behavior…

In the past I played a few 40K games and my 28mm SciFi army didnt contain one single GW figure and they certainly looked the business. There are so many much better figures at much lower prices. Unless you specifically really do like GW 40K figures there is no need ever to buy one, or their vehicles. Some figures are £5.00 GBP EACH… you can get half a dozen better figures elsewhere between blinks. The prob is that if a lad does this, he isnt going to be able to play with his mates in the shop… There is another thread on here called.. This hobby must become more user friendly… take a look in the mirror GW.

Hammer

GW will eventually reap what it has sown… If I can be an instrument in bringing about that karmic collision… All the better for it…

For gawds sake.. GET A LIFE.

Ol' Jim— LOL!

Okay, so let me introduce a few cold statistics into the fire. These came from their corporate site, from their official annual reports. I'm going to round things off a bit to make it easier:

GW Sales 2000: 71M pounds
GW Profits 2000: 10M pounds

GW Sales 2004: 151M pounds
GW Profits 2004: 20M pounds

Their profit margin is somewhere between 13-14%.

So from this I have to say the following:
A) Even though many, many folks visit TMP to complain, you are apparently just a tiny minority. The numbers speak for themselves, there are tens of thousnads of people who feel otherwise, and they don't cast negative votes with their keyboard, they cast positive votes with their wallets.
B) GW must be doing something right if, during the last 5 years, which were very, very bad for most businesses, and a rough economic patch that we have yet to pull out of, they can still DOUBLE their business.
C) I am seriously considering buying stock in GW. That is one heck of a performance! Wish I had purchased some 5 years ago.

I have looked at their site as well, and will probably become an investor as well since they are a publically traded company.

As a potential share holder, I am hoping that they will see the writing on the wall and begin to become more friendly with the rest of the hobby.

You can also get even more detailed information by requesting an investor packet from the corporate site. It has all kinds of fun numbers in it like the breakdown of ages of customers who either have electroinic data with the credit card companies that are used to buy the products or from their on-line catalog… LOT of data in that thing, but the last one I saw was in 2000, so I am not sure how accurate the data would be now. It did show that their games are aimed at the 15-25 year old market.

As I said… I do not like many of their products, but their profit margins do speak for themselves, and if I get enough stock, or broker the proxy for a large enough block of votes… It may even be possible to bring a little bit of change to their product line…

In that regard. There is very little that needs to be changed to keep them making money, and some of the changes that I would like to see would actually cause a drop in profits for a period as the higher capital investment required would take some time to be offset by future sales*.

As far as generating sales… GW knows how to do that in spades. But, just like on the "The Hoby needs to become more friendly" thread. Their sales could take a BIG hit if a company comes along that produces a higher quality product for less money, and containing just as high production standards as GWs products. And, instead of relying upon constant changes to the core rules and miniatures lines relying upon a growing and evolving story line for their products.

Traveller did this for a while, but they failed to produce the support products for their game that gamers wanted at the time: a miniature line that could be used with the game. Wen last I spoke to the GDW staff in the late 1980s none of them saw the importance of a miniatures line, and were not willing to take the investment risk to see a line developed and supported.

GW DID do this, and look where it got them… RICH is where it got them. Although the suport of the miniature line came with somewhat tenuous background material that, although it contained a richly detailed story, it did not have the consistency that would allow it to remain unchanged as those inconsistencies drove changes to the system and the miniatures.

If one of the many companies that produce a stronger story actually manages to bring out the size of miniature line that GW is capable of producing in support of their products… GW could be in trouble.

If a LOT of companies discover that they too can become as competitive and strong economically as GW. It may be an even bigger blow to GW.

I should do a count of the different types of miniatures lines out there and see how they compare to GW's lines…

*Bringing in teams to proofread and research the applications proposed by the technology would take a bit of money. This same thing is done in companies that produce goods that are based upon future technologies being developed to provide a wider degree of applications. In GWs case, it would be to provide a better sense of coherency to their writing, and if some of the books do show a better use of their technology; to make sure that this makes its way into the games.

I was thinking of starting a betting pool- How many posts can we get out of this dead horse. The trick is this- everyone who joins in and antes up a nickle is NOT allowed to post on this subject anymore…so no posting just to get to what you think it will end up at….So I'm betting 732. Who's with me! :)

I pity anyone who starts reading this topic from the beginning….

"How many posts can we get out of this dead horse. "

Brings back memories of the "Goal: 100,000 Posts!" thread I started on the Howard Stern MB. Got it up to 2400 before that board closed down.
And that whole site was dedicated to SPAM…..

GEEZ!! You're still kicking this horse? Not even a Frenchman would eat it now.

Here's a trick for you, if you don't like GW, FOW, or anyone else's product, DON'T BUY IT!!!!! And please stop whining at the people who do.

Hate?

Perhaps that question is best answered by someone who actually does hate GW.

I don't hate them.

I dislike some of their business practices, policies and decisions. I think some of their stuff is overpriced (while some is good value).

Is the "hate" really a case of different perspectives? To the rabid fanboy with his rosy-colored glasses and GW-is-the-best-thing-since-sliced-bread attitude, ANY negative remark or criticism is "hate".

As for BattleTech:

Back in the day, FASA was a very small company and didn't have an art department, nor the money to hire good illustrators (just look at the interior B&W art in early BT books).

So, when they designed BattleDroids (and got sued by George Lucas for the name, later changed to BattleTech), they bought art from a number of Japanese shows: Macross, Dougram, Crusher Joe etc. The japanese back then didn't think much of overseas rights, so FASA probably got it rather cheap.

Now… in true American tradition, they weren't too keen on letting anyone know they borrowed stuff from the Japanese and consequently kept very quiet about. VERY quiet. Speed Racer quiet.

To this day, I have not seen a single FASA product that credits the original japanese illustrators. Perhaps their contract didn't require it, but I still think it's unethical.

This, ofcourse, was ripe ground for fanboy flamewars with anime otaku accusing FASA of ripping Macross et.al. off and FASA fanboys claiming FASA in-house artists did all the artwork and the japanese ripped them off (goes to show normal laws of logic and proof do not apply in fanboy flamefests).

FASA later got sued by the US producers of Robotech, Harmony Gold, but I believe they won the case.

Trivia: I have a WD issue that has a review of BattleDroids. The game came with plastic kits (repackaged japanese kits).

quote "If one of the many companies that produce a stronger story actually manages to bring out the size of miniature line that GW is capable of producing in support of their products… GW could be in trouble. "

This is very true – however, it is up to other companies to step up to the plate as GW is not going to step down!

Having said that, the moment someone does try to to this, for example Battlefronts Flames of War, certain elements of this hobby disparage them and try to bring them down as GW "clones".

These same elements (and I am not necessarily directing this as anyone posting here) seem to want to keep the whole hobby as a cottage industry.

quote "Traveller did this for a while, but they failed to produce the support products for their game that gamers wanted at the time: a miniature line that could be used with the game. "

Traveller is (was?), first and foremost, a role playing game, so a Traveller miniatures line was not likely to increase sales significantly in the same way that supplements and scenario packs do.

Most mainstream GW games are produced to support the miniatures line, not the other way round. What got me into wargaming was the range of Citadel miniatures that you could buy in my local Goodacres in Horsham back in the early 80s primarily for use with RPGS (D&D mostly). Warhammer became a natural extension of that.

As for the whole "user friendly" thing – I think that GW have made the hobby (or at least their corner of it) about as user friendly as you can get, with the exception of price.

Regards,

Dave

As for Traveller, didn't some other company (Grenadier?) produce miniatures for that under licence?

Griefbringer

I think even GW produced Traveller minis at one point (in the glorious 80's).

Or to be correct, I guess I should say Citadel Miniatures did.

This is how great of a company GW is:

link

Traveller minis…

Martian Metals were the first to produce Traveller minis in 15mm, and they were not exactly very good. As a matter of fact… They sucked pretty hard…

Save for the three miniatures Sculpted by Ab Mobasher.

Citadel did a line of 15mm Traveller minis that were excellent. Citadel hoped to expand the line, BUT GDW did not provide the product support that it was supposed to for the miniature games and accessories. Citadel saw no further reason to continue supplying miniatures for a game that was not supporting the miniature sales.

RAFM had the canadian lisencing for the Citadel miniatures and the Martian Metals minis. They only produced the Ab Mobasher Grav-Tanks that MM did, and the Striker line of Citadel miniatures.

GDW then re-tools Traveller to "The New Era", and lisences Grenadier to do a line of 25mm Traveller minis.

They are a BIG hit, but GDW does not provide adequate support for the miniature line, nor will it contribute to produce the miniatures that people wanted (The Combat Armor Imerial Army troops, Grav Vehicles of all types, More Aliens other than the couple of Vargr and Aslani minis that were done)…

GDW were primarily a RPG company, but they failed to see that RPGs were increasingly linked to miniatures.

GW DID see this, and lisenced all kind of RPG minis (Runequest, Stormbringer/Alric, Cthulu, Warhammer, Rouge Trader). Some of these lines they more or less threw to the lions to push their own brand of minis (Warhammer).

If GDW had marketted games to push miniatures sales, and came out with regular releases of miniatures.. Hell, they have 3 human "empires" (The Vilani Imperium, Solomani, and Zhodani), 3 anamistic aliens (Vargr, Aslan, K'Kree), and a plethora of non-human non-anthromorphs (Hivers, Gas Bags, etc… I wonder if Droyne count here, or would they be anthropomorphic???)

You couldn't ask for a better resource to drive miniatures sales, and there is a pretty huge Traveller fan base that would be great for doing miniature demos just like 40K does…

ANYWAY… That is one thing that GW does know how to do. Promote their games… RUTHLESSLY…

I don't know man… older gamers are always going on about how this or that old-skool game could be the next big thing if only it was revived with enough support… but the crusty people who played original Traveller or whatever are *not* the GW target audience… they want the kids, and to the kids names from the past don't mean nothing, except for Star Wars.

Things'll be keen when GW Hate Thread reaches thirteeeeeeeeeeeeeen.

Thank you thank you . I did turn down the gig at Live 8.

Judas: "If GDW had marketted games to push miniatures sales"

Should we also start a GDW hatred thread while we are at it?

Griefbringer

Well, I don't hate the company per se, but I *do* hate GW's board of directors, and I'll tell you why. I started playing GW games back in 1987, in junior high, and loved it. The plastics were a great deal and the 40k universe was fantastic (especially since the Rogue Trader rulebook was so richly illustrated and dripping with atmosphere). There were terrific stand-alone games (Space Hulk, Mighty Empires, Dark Future, Talisman) that were well supported. Plastics were cheap and cheerful — you could get thirty Beaky Marines for the price of five of today's Marines (well, okay — $22 USD then versus $20 USD today). People had a great time just playing for fun and converting all sorts of models for use with 40k, because Rogue Trader encouraged that sort of thing. Then, in 1991, I joined the Army and dropped out of the gaming scene.

Fast-forward twelve years.

In 2003, I decided to get back into the hobby. Good lord, what a change. Power-gaming (*encouraged* by the rulebook), a much snottier crowd of players (Fanboy culture — or maybe "Fanyob" would be more appropriate), the "Chapter-approved" mentality, a dearth of creativity at Nottingham (when was the last time the released a game unrelated to a core line, like Dark Future or Talisman?), core creative talent either fleeing the company or relegated to Fanatic, and prices that have skyrocketed well past any believable rate of inflation or materials prices, thanks entirely to power-pricing. How disappointing and disheartening, given how much I used to dearly love the fluff. And who's to blame? Tom Kirby.

I honestly believe that Tom Kirby and his minions are looting the company. The latest round of price "adjustments" are a sign to me that they are trying to squeeze the last bit of toothpaste out of the tube before selling the company off. For while it's true that revenues have gone up, unit sales are dropping, and it doesn't take an MBA to see why — the inexcusable price increases. Everyone points to LOTR coming to an end, but I don't see that as a reasonable excuse for dropping turnover; Tolkien is marketable for years, if marketed correctly. No, the bigger problem is that there is no one on the board of directors who can relate to gamers anymore:

Tom Kirby (age 55): Prior to joining Games Workshop, he worked for six years for a distributor of fantasy games in the UK and was previously an Inspector of Taxes.

Michael Sherwin (age 46): accountant

Chris Myatt (age 61): Treasurer of Keele University

Alan Stewart (age 45): accountant

Nick Donaldson (age 51): barrister

So there's the board. Think they give a rat's patootie about us or the fluff we love? Not hardly. They'll squeeze every last drop of blood out of GW and then chop it up and sell it off piece by piece, or declare bankruptcy, or something else similarly dire. But they have no connection to the gaming community, and will drive into the ground and move on to something else. People point to failed gamer-run companies like FASA and TSR, but I don't think it's a matter of "gamers can't run companies" — GW has just taken the business side of it to an extreme, where they do whatever they can to make money no matter what it does to the fan base. It'd be nice if they'd chosen a middle road of some kind.

And that's why I hate them. If I were driving along and saw Mr. Kirby in the crosswalk, I would not even slow down…

quote "And that's why I hate them. If I were driving along and saw Mr. Kirby in the crosswalk, I would not even slow down…"

Bit extreme isn't it??? :-p

Seriously though, last time I looked GW didn't boil babies down to make their plastic Space Orks and they don't force you at gun point to buy their products.

SeattleGamer has already quoted the sales figures and profit margins for GW, and i don't think it is making particularly excessive profits in a global marketplace.

If you are buying GW products in the US, please bear in mind that the dollar is currently very weak against the pound. For years, it was around $1.4 USD to Ł1, whereas over the last year it has been more like $1.9 USD to £1.00 GBP I'm not trying to justify GW prices either in the UK or the US, but that is a significant difference.

As a corollary, much "loved" US companies like Apple haven't reduced the GBP cost of their products (e.g. the Ipod) yet they are manufactured to a USD cost. They are making a fortune from UK, yet they are adored!!!

Regards,

Dave

whooohoo page 13 over the horizon.

Tom Kirby seems to be taking his time looting GW for a fast buck. he has been there over 10 years.

He's quite a nice guy actually. And he paints OK too.

The rest of the board? well, its a Board of Directors. You shouldn't expect too many hippies on that.

As far as I am aware there has been no flight of talent that Javelin refers to, though I don't keep my finger on the pulse. Rick Priestley, Jervis Johnson, John Blanche, they are the names that matter. Some of the snotlings – Tuomas Pirinen for example – don't count as creatives of importance in my book. Now HE was a power gamer, and his prose sucked too.

Pat

"a dearth of creativity at Nottingham (when was the last time the released a game unrelated to a core line, like Dark Future or Talisman?)"

I think this has more to do with profit maximalisation than with dearth of creativity. When it comes to that, GW still counts, and actually has more creative talent than most competitors in the "cheap & cheerful" section of the fantasy miniature gaming market.

Of course plenty of what Javelin98 says is spot on, but then what did you expect from a publicly listed company? They have to keep the greedy shareholders satisfied. now shareholders are captitalist swine, I agree with you there, but that just is the way it is.

OK, back to the entirely justified rantings on ridiculous prices, corporate greed & the non-future of GW…

(Did I bring us to page 13?)

"(Did I bring us to page 13?)"

no

Still five more posts needed before it will make for a new page.

Griefbringer

I met Tom Kirby when he flew out to Seattle to check in with Sabertooth Games (who had developed the 40K CCG). I was a playtester, and he was there when I arrived at night to playtest. Had a brief chat with him. He was impressed and very appreciative that people like me would donate their time free of charge to work out the kinks in a game. He seemed like a nice guy, not a stuffy CEO-type that was all about the bottom line.

The folks at Sabertooth were quite open about their relationship with GW (for those who need the history, in the beginning Sabertooth was an independent company, with a license from GW to use their artwork and universe to develop the game – after it came out, GW liked it so much they bought out Sabertooth). Throughout the development and playtesting process, GW gave Sabertooth free reign to do what they wanted with the game mechanics, but they reserved final say in any artwork.

I used to see fantastic art submitted under contract by a variety of artists, and be told "Gw has approved sample A for this card, and turned down these other two because of…" and then cite the reason. GW wanted to protect their universe and the perceptions of that universe, and if an artist did something that didn't fit the fluff (or the codex) then it was disallowed.

And I thought that was a very sound thing for them to do.

If it makes the haters any happier, I should point out that GW actually lost money in the US in their most recent full fiscal year (I believe it was just under 2M pounds). Probably had something to do with the economy over hear, and the falling dollar. But it might have something to do with so many people hating them that they are finally starting to feel the pinch.

Me? I'm still seriously considering buying a block or two of their stock.

Just going for 600 here…

I think Gw should make their PR people in taining thoroughly read this whole post, LOL.

600 posts and what have we learned? Glue is too expensive and the nids look cool as hell!

GA very BIG reason why GW are disliked:
GW disregard continuity and 'after care' of their customers.
I can still buy Essex figures that I bought 10-12 years ago. In fact I have done just that, to add a bit to my Late Romans. Still perfect castings.

GW… look at how many games, rules and figures have come and gone. Try and buy Armies of Antiquity (have they done a recent reprint?) the most important of the WaB supplements. Their figures are continually coming off the shelves, other wargame suppliers dont do it anywhere near as much if at all.

Its done not to look after their customers but for financial reasons and to force their latest offerings in figures and rule books. A most unreputable practice which has no defence.

Keep this one going eh?
Hammer

The worst thing is their archive service. No packaging costs, just a casting machine and an order picker. And they charge twice as much as current stuff. What a rip.

Yeah, it was a flimsy thing to complain about to drive this baby closer to the 1000 mark!