"When is wargaming, not wargaming. " Topic

"… ' The concept of 3D gaming in the context of what we do as wargamers is not original. However there are two reasons why we chose to adopt the title for our club.
The first is controversial in our community but I believe firmly that wargaming is a title for our hobby will become obsolete and may already be having a negative effect on bringing younger people into the fold.

It then goes on ; ' The second reason [ for the name] is that not all games played at wargames clubs are wargames. For example, do games such as Zombicide, Pandemic and 7TV among many others count as wargames?' …"
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Amicalement
Armand

I believe it was Duke Seifried who came up with the term "Adventure Gaming",or at least was it's biggest promoter. The intention was good--simply expanding the gaming "tent". Uncle Duke has been a tireless promoter of gaming for decades, a kind of Forrest J. Ackerman of gaming. That term never really caught on,though,unlike Forry's coinage, "Sci-Fi",which unfortunately did.

Some interesting points here. A few years ago I wrote the following for the Warlords web site explaining our hobby:

The South London Warlords is a Wargames Club. This means that we meet as a group and play games with – usually – a military, historical or conflict orientated theme. These games are sometimes based on historical events or on fantasy situations.

I don't see much need for more contorted descriptions, I have to say.

John T

Wot? A game not based on historical conflict and called a wargame? Pistols at 10 paces, says I. Or light sabers…

I like John Treadaway's definition – it is flexible enough to cover practically anything.

I am a wargamer, I've been one for a very long time, I fight battles with toy soldiers. I'd rather be open about it than try to hide behind some euphemism like "adventure gamer" or "3D gamer".

Having said this it is not for me to tell any group what they should call themselves.

If wargaming includes computer based conflict and battle games then wargaming is one of the biggest pastimes on the planet.

Halo, World of Warcraft, World of Tanks,Total War and so on.

Are they wargames?It's in the eye of the beholder perhaps.

On the Warlords' archived site there is a page with more details on that definition tjat I also wrote to define the different sort of games we played at the time (this was ten years ago):

We play them in various different ways. These might include:

"Figure" games. These feature miniature representations of real life items, in metal, plastic or other materials, usually in a reduced scale. This means 'toy soldiers', tanks, spaceships, dragons or whatever. These tend to be, built, assembled and painted by their owners. These items are manoeuvred over terrain to a set of rules by one or more players.

Board Games. These are much the same as figure games, but tend to use pre-manufactured playing pieces, often on a printed 'board' instead of "3D" terrain.

Role Playing Games. These can involve either of the first two game types but – in addition – require players to almost 'act out' roles of individual characters.

Live Role Playing Games. These usually mean – at the Warlords at least – a combination of amateur dramatics and simulated violence played out in 'real environments' rather than with a number of players sat around a table top. The Warlords usually uses a system called Laser (or Lazer) Tag for these games

Computer Games. Bearing in mind the thing you're looking at while you read this, you probably know what a computer is. At the Warlords we use them individually to play games on and as groups to moderate games we play in other styles. Typically we use a computer to help in the employment of some of the more complex rule systems we might use in a 'figure' game.

Some games are competitive, some are played 'just for fun'

Like I said, a decade ago and aimed at explaining our hobby to nubes, but you can probably see what I was shooting for.

If the word "shooting" doesn't ruffle people's sensibilities…

John T

I prefer a tighter, more literal, definition.

Phil

I like 'adventure gaming' it sounds less aggressive and less like what the military does and is far more inclusive of games that may not particularly deal with War per se but might be miniatures heavy in their use. One particular example is Thanesgames' pod racing rules that used Micromachines Star Wars pod racers over terrain and a table.

I also have been known to use the term 'tabletop strategy games' in that I also play boardgames that are not necessarily miniatures based. Boardgames are often thought of as merely Risk or Monopoly and more evocative descriptions are helpful to explain to non-gamers what I spend my time doing.

Perhaps we should just call it "Playing with Toy Soldiers".

;-)

Anyway, trying to change an accepted name for a hobby that has been in use for decades if not a full century is futile. Call it whatever you want. 50 years from now everyone will still talk about "wargaming".

Or it will be so un-politically correct/unacceptable in an increasingly conformist, 'I have the right to have anything that offends me banned' society that players will have to adopt apparently innocuous euphemisms.

I like Phil's suggestion.

People like Arthur1815 is talking about don't get invited back. We once had a person like Arthur1815 was talking about in our club. We told him to get lost. Our club membership went up 20% when word got around we told him to take a hike and we all wanted very dearly to offend him.

How about "conflict simulation"? That pretty much covers everything.

I don't usually consider LARP / Lazer tag as wargaming. I don't particularly expect anyone to agree with me, but I don't mind if they do!

LARP, to my mind, is "fantasy re-enactment" and / or "adlibbed theatre".

But then I don't suppose that "real" re-enactors will necessarily agree!

It's just labels. Who cares? Have fun !

The Warlords'/John's summary is more than suitable.

What is funny is that I have been gaming since 1969 and this years seems to be the first time I have heard any desire for defining "True Wargaming" or that science fiction or fantasy is in some different hobby than historicals.It strikes me as counter productive.

Thanks,

Pat

With the enforced conformity of political correctness, I hope Ottoathome's solution continues to work. There may come a time when the enforcers won't need an invitation.

Our club uses the term "Battlegamers"

Tom D1

I think this concern is a bit overwrought. A person who would be offended by games of war would hardly want to be included in one. In any case this is nothing the hobby hasn't experienced already. Back in the 50's and 70's the flower children and anti-war groups already had a run at us, claiming we were all crypto-fascists just itching to take our sack of guns up on top of a tower and start shooting people. We (war gamers) weathered that storm largely by ignoring the flower powers. They wanted to criticize us, not play and so they could be ignored.

In the cases where they might become hyperventilating about their "outrage" and "offense" the best method is to simply rub their face in it.

I remember back in the late 60's several of he campus liberals fornerd me in the cafeteria and were showing off, claiming that as my name was Otto Schmidt, and I playe dwar games, that I must be a Nazi and Nazi lover, and I wanted to kill little yellow babies in Vietnam. This went on with me attempting to be a rational person and arguing against what they were saying and what I felt about the Nazis which was general and specific detestation. Their response was always "But you glorify war and violence and therefore must be a Nazi."

In vain did I argue for the better part of an hour against their assertions that I was a Nazi and besotted with Hitler. At last, exasperated I said "OK, you got me, I think Hitler was a great guy, loved kids and dogs and made the trains run on time. "

At that they put on their full court self righteous indignation mode and said loftily "Well what about them killing 4 million Jews."

I responded. "6 million, you underrate Teutonic efficiency." The tables all around who had been listening to this dissolved in laughter, and began hooting and cat-calling the "offended souls." They were REALLY offended then.

The best way to get rid of these people is to poke fun at them and show how ridiculous they are.

A favorite story from college back 1973-74. We met for our group wargames in the cavernous ROTC hangar, which was shared with other groups. One evening, as their martial arts class was ending, a group of coeds swished on over to our table, where we were happily pushing lad, rolling dice, and joking. They gazed scornfully at our activities, exclaiming "How Militaristic!"

Well, OK, I suppose I can't argue with that. But let's see, you have just spent the past hour practicing personal combat skills originally designed to main or kill your opponent, and you don't see the irony of it?!

I'm usually kind of wary of these long, tortured definitions because they tend to end up in all sorts of silly gate-keeping.

I'm with Arthur1815 and Weasel on this one. Changing words and language so that an accepted and well used word suddenly becomes unacceptable is an increasingly pernicious trend in society. You see it on campuses in particular and more and more in the workplace. The word is given meaning far more than it's definition and becomes weighted down with people's baggage.

So wargaming; a word commonly associated with model soldiers and rules for conflict. But not all models are soldiers, not all battles are lethal fights but it fell under the banner of "wargaming". If those who played the non-military games wished to further define them as "adventure gaming" or such like then they were free to do so or to choose their title but remain under the wargaming umbrella.

The problem with trying to re-brand the hobby and do away with the word, wargaming, is that it no longer becomes a choice of definition, it is those who are sensitive to a word seeking its removal from the vocabulary. The other problem is that by rebranding the hobby, you don't really trust the hobby or are suspicious of its core.

"I'm usually kind of wary of these long, tortured definitions because they tend to end up in all sorts of silly gate-keeping."

Is the not the nature of the of the hobby? Rules by any other name?

Sounds like you guys must have met some paricularly humorless people. I knew plenty of hippies(including myself!),who happily played wargames. Nothing more fun when you're high than blowin' up stuff!