"Photons and Disrupters Oh My!" Topic

Need some feedback from Star Trek miniatures players out there.

I'm looking for the best system to use with the following parameters:

1. Using Amarillo Design Bureau Star Fleet Miniatures;

2. The weapons system rules are distinct enough where I feel like I'm firing the weapon I'm firing e.g. photons, disrupters etc.;

3. I can play with 10 to 12 ships in 2 to 3 hours;

4. Can be with hexes or without;

5. Looking at these rules systems but feel free to add anything that you want:

a. ACTA – Star Fleet
b. Starmada Nova
c. Starmada Admiralty
d. Full Thrust

Thanks in advance for your input!

D. Full Thrust Simple and Fast

A. You should look at A sky full of stars 2nd edition.

5150: Star Navy for me.

C. Starmada Admiralty. I'm trying to put a demo together for my gaming group using a combination of ADB 2500 miniatures, and my Star Trek Axanar miniatures. Have not tried Full Thrust, but Admiralty is better than Nova and ACTA.

e. A Sky Full of Ships (for Star Trek)

PDF link

Vote for Full Thrust.

Used to be a big ACTA:SF fanboy, no more (personal reasons I don't plan to go into, as ADB has a presence here).

Engage! by Red Wyvern Games is ST with the serial numbers filed off. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be too supported right now, but it's my ruleset of choice for the setting and I was able to stat up all my models.

Starmada is my game of choice, although I prefer the Compendium. That said, NOVA is a decent game. I have heard good things about Admiralty Edition, but I haven't played it. Admiralty and Nova have rules for running a Star Trek campaign.

Starmada Admiralty, best rules for Star Trek I've found so far.

I've tried a few other systems for Star Trek over the years, but I still like the original boxed version of Star Fleet Battles. It just feels more Star Trekish to me. This would be the single small rule book, 1982 or there abouts, with or without the three small expansions, pre-Commanders Edition Rulebooks.

We play 10-20 ships per side, usually two player these days, and finish in 2.5 to 4 hours.

irishserb, you're a better man than I!

Still have fond memories, but I always stopped at a couple/three ships.

Sorry, neo, but we're all fanboys of that we love. Most rules are either free, or have free demo sets.

If I hadn't seen my own favorite mentioned, seconded, etc, I would say otherwise, but you'll just have to try and see.

Let us know.

Doug

Another vote for Starmada Admiralty. Plays fast but still feels like your in the sfb universe. Although Full Thrust is a good second choice and we've had some good games building our own version of SFB ships using it.

Personally I've never found Full Thrust to be a good system for Star Trek. Shields often don't protect ships from attacks. If you don't do shields right, you aren't doing ST right. And the critical hit/threshold system while excellent for BSG, Star Wars and similar systems seemed a bit out of character for the Trek ships. It is a fun game and resolves quickly.

If I had to run a Star Trek game right now I'd go Federation Commander (a lighter version of Star Fleet Battles) or ACTA myself. I've also heard very good things about Starmada Admiralty but haven't played it. It looks like it is a good squadron size fit for Trek though from the rules.

Hey! Thanks for everyone's input!

I love Full Thrust and use it for most of my games but it doesn't seem to quite capture the flavor of the weapons systems and shields from Star Trek.

Sky Full of Ships is a great rule set as well but it seems like a set for HUGE battles and Federation Commander seems like it would be limited to maybe six ships to get it under two to three hours. I'm not even going to go to Starfleet Battles LOL!

So I am looking at:

A. Starmada Admiralty;
B. Starmada Nova; and
C. ACTA:SF.

Admiralty seems to have the most detail and crunchy weapons system rules with Nova being a more streamlined but less detailed set of rules – probably better for larger battles. ACTA: SF seems to be in the same category as Nova, streamlined and larger battles.

So of these three, which one will let me play in 2 to 3 hours with 12 ships per side and still feel crunchy enough?

Right out of the gate (as in learning from scratch) I'd go with ACTA. The revised edition that is just being re-released has been largely fixed of many of the issues that I suspect ended many people's love of the game. I haven't tried both armada editions, but when I did, it still felt too generic to me. It didn't feel like the SFU. ACTA feels like the SFU, and we've made a few modifications to our group's play that makes it even more so.

It will comfortably handle 12 ships in a couple hours. In fact at sizes less than about 6-7 per side the system actually breaks down a bit.

I'd check out Federation Commander. It's not anywhere near as rules-dense as SFB currently is, but still meets your "different weapons systems feel different" requirement.

I think it will happily handly 12 ships per side, but need to play it some more myself. Only downside is that it's Star Fleet Universe, so none of the Cardassians, Borg, etc.

AND, there's a free download to give it a try. Which includes hexless rules.

I can't believe I'm flogging ADB. I feel so unclean. ;->=

Doug

From the Fed Commander I've played, I think it's too fiddly/time consuming to play 12 ships per side in 2-3 hours. It just was not meant to handle that many ships. It may not be SFB, but it's still too rules-dense for my needs.

That is why you should use the ACTA version for larger battles

Edit-to-above-note-but-took-too-long:

Shields often don't protect ships from attacks. If you don't do shields right, you aren't doing ST right.

I kind of agree, as shields are pretty much the WHOLE battle. And even in SFB, that's not quite true.

I have used supership-style blocking with renewing armor, but didn't think it added that much.

Doug

I'd check out Federation Commander. It's not anywhere near as rules-dense as SFB currently is, but still meets your "different weapons systems feel different" requirement.

I think it will happily handly 12 ships per side, but need to play it some more myself. Only downside is that it's Star Fleet Universe, so none of the Cardassians, Borg, etc.

I've been getting back into FedCom.

I've been re-drawing SSDs (no rule changes) to clean them up a bit, and switching the race names:

Lyran = Cardassian
Hydran = Dominion
ISC = Breen
Andromedan = Borg
Kzinti = Vulcan (questionable, but needed an excuse to include the cool-looking ships)

I've been getting back into FedCom.

I've been re-drawing SSDs (no rule changes) to clean them up a bit, and switching the race names:

Lyran = Cardassian
Hydran = Dominion
ISC = Breen
Andromedan = Borg
Kzinti = Vulcan (questionable, but needed an excuse to include the cool-looking ships)

Yea, if you map the SFB-only races to the later series races you can pretty much use Fed Commander for TNG and later without inventing any new rules. Personanly, I'd have switched the Hydran and ISC mappings, making the ISC the Dominion and the Hydrans the Breen.

The SFU-SPECIFIC Starmada versions? (Klingon Armada, etc.)

Yea, if you map the SFB-only races to the later series races you can pretty much use Fed Commander for TNG and later without inventing any new rules. Personanly, I'd have switched the Hydran and ISC mappings, making the ISC the Dominion and the Hydrans the Breen.

Thought about that… but the Hydran Stingers are good stand-ins for the Jem Hadar Attack Ships, and the Hellbores are a decent "shield-bypassing" weapon of sorts.

@emckinney – yup, the SFU-Specific Starmada versions – both Admiralty and Nova. Have you played both and if you have, which would you recommend under my parameters?

Mapping the TNG races to the SFB races is a cool idea. I hadn't thought about that. Lots of plastic miniatures available from Attack Wing as well. Pretty cool!

Mapping the TNG races to the SFB races is a cool idea. I hadn't thought about that. Lots of plastic miniatures available from Attack Wing as well. Pretty cool!

Yep – key reason I did it.

Thought about that… but the Hydran Stingers are good stand-ins for the Jem Hadar Attack Ships, and the Hellbores are a decent "shield-bypassing" weapon of sorts.

Good point on the fighters = attack ships similarity, there's no PF's in FC which is what I thought about using in SFB. The ISC PPD is (in SFB at least, I admit I haven't seen the FC rules) also a good 'Polaron Beam' style weapon, which is why I was leaning towards the ISC, but I also find your argument convincing.

-Will

FASA Star Trek Star ship Sim rules OOP but very nice for trek.

I play the new revised ACTASF rules and enjoy them greatly!

I will give a vote for A call to Arms: Star Fleet. I've enjoyed the rules with the games I've played. It fits most of your requirements, but does not have hexes. I imagine it would be pretty easy to add them though.

Thanks to everyone for the continued recommendations. I think I'll make a decision in a couple of days. I just want to see if anyone else wants to chime in before I "make it so Number 1!".

Here's my final solution:

For Star Trek skirmishes for 10 to 12 ships per side:

ACTA: Star Fleet

For small skirmishes for 3 to 5 ships per side for super crunchyness:

Federation Commander using the hexless system.

I decided that I didn't want to buy any new hex mats so I wanted to stay with a system that was built for hexless space combat but which still carried enough flavor from Star Trek.

Federation Commander was a system that I decided to look into because of some of the posts on this thread. I didn't know it had a hexless option. Part of it was the crunchiness of the system for fewer ships and part nostalgia from when I used to play Starfleet Battles.

I, for one, want to hear how the FC works out. I've not looked to see how far the hexless will work in the rules.

Doug

Played StarFleet Battles Long Long ago. I could not keep up w the number crunching, 'energy allocation, etc".
Was more 'work than fun'..so never played again.

I wrote my own home rules. Once you hit, you do have to keep count of pt dmg to sheild, then the damage is done to SS.

Just a basic Idea there.. even now looking to make it more simple.
I was looking fwd to play A Call to Arms ST, but with Mongoose', once again changing, then pulling back on supporting another game sys. NO interest ever developed in my area.

If anyone knows Neo personally, ask him how's he doing with FC hexless…

Doug

We have a group of about 6 regular players who use ACTASF.

For those who have or are playing Mongoose' ACTASF (finally got it right lol) Im curious..

How did they work for you? As mentioned earlier, its never played here.

I play games with Sean above, but he's yet to trot it out and whomp me in it.

He DOES speak most highly, but he probably assumes I'd demand a play of FT first, not that he'd actually mind that. ;->=

Recently, when discussing a game night, someone spoke of some home built ST rules, and Sean was all 'Spaceships! I'm in!'

Doug