"Why Japanese Tanks? " Topic

"The release of the Pacific War books couldn't have come at a better time for me. I'd been looking for a new Flames of War army to do for a long time and when the guys at Behind Enemy Lines were offered the chance to jump on-board and help out, I found myself really excited about the opportunity. (Even if I found a week later than the others!) Clutching my copy of Banzai with feverish hands I skimmed through the army lists…

My choice for a new army? A Sensha Rentai (Tank Regiment.) -Japanese tanks! Lots and lots (and lots!) of tanks. I've always loved running hordes of tanks since I first started playing in 2002-2003. Of course, way back then I only had an Italian tank force of underpowered, outgunned and slightly mad L3-35 tankettes and M40/41 "medium" tanks to compete versus other better mid war forces. So I thought to myself why change what I've always loved to play with now? I've always relished the challenge of using slightly off the wall, unbalanced lists that people wouldn't really consider using themselves, and a Sensha Rentai with no infantry or artillery barreling across the table as fast as their outmoded engines could go made me laugh.

In 1940, Japan fielded the fifth largest tank force in the world (behind the USSR, France, Britain and Germany, but ahead of Italy.) Of course by 1943 the designs they had in the 1930's were horribly obsolete. Sounds like fun to me…"

Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Lots of tanks? Where? China pre-1942 is about it. Maybe a bit in the Philippines, but many of those critters were buried and used as pillboxes. You'll be hard pressed to find much more than a company+ of tanks on any given island, like only 22 made it to Iwo Jima (designated the 26th Armoured Regiment). 17 at Peleliu which lasted until the end of day 3? 4? when they made a made dash across the air field and lead to the Marines claiming 187 tanks destroyed.

Sigh.

Have fun.

Ah, here's a nice little history of how many tanks the Japanese had where:

link

Lots of tanks:

Mongolia – 1939 vs. Soviets
Singapore / Burma – 1942 vs. Brits and Indians
Bataan / Corregidor – 1942 vs. Philippine and U.S. Army
Luzon – 1944 / 1945 vs. U.S. Army
Manchuria – 1945 vs. Soviets
Northern Islands – 1945 vs. Soviets

Also on Kwajalein, apparently.

RST, that picture always makes me laugh. Granted it's a 'tankette', but it drives home the disparity between the United States and IJA tank forces by late war.

2nd Tank division was present in the Philippines. A lot more effective in '41-42 than '44-'45. Gas supply was a real problem in late war…and a sky full of American aircraft looking for something to strafe/bomb.

Wargamers do not let historical gas shortages stop them from fielding hordes of tanks in unhistorical fashion.
The masses of American aircraft could be an issue though…

Japanese tanks are adorable and too many are never enough! :p

I have always thought the 1938/39 Mongolian battles (Japanese against the Soviets) would be interesting. Japanese tanks may look pitiful vs. Shermans in 1943/44, but they don't look nearly as bad compared to T-26s and BT-5s in 1938.

I am left wondering, though, at the quote in the original posting:

In 1940, Japan fielded the fifth largest tank force in the world (behind the USSR, France, Britain and Germany, but ahead of Italy.)

I don't have a specific count in 1940 (and what month in 1940, would be an important detail), but … really?

In the mid 1930s the Italians had the second largest tank force in the world, with several thousand tanks in service. Only the Soviets had more, and since no one but the Soviets knew that, the rest of the world considered the Italian tank force to be the largest. That's more than the French or the British or even the Germans. Admittedly the great majority were L3s, but the author of the original post indicates he counts L3s in his Italian force, and counts "tankettes" in his Japanese force.

I know that the Italian force was down a bit by the time war actually broke out, but even the Fiat 3000, in original form (M. 1921) or updated form (M. 1930), was still in service during WW2 (and saw action as late as 1943 on Sicily).

The Italians managed to equip 3 Armored divisions, a tank battalion in each of 9 Motor Rifle divisions, and a tank squadron in each of 3 Fast (Celere) divisions, as well as numerous independent tank formations.

I doubt, very seriously, that Japan has a larger tank force. I don't even think Britain or France did. At least not at the start of the war. Not saying that the British and French tank forces were not more capable, but in terms of numbers, I don't think the Italians took a back seat to anyone but the Russians and maybe Germans.

Anyone got some 1940 numbers?

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Thanks John Thomas8 – brilliant link!

I love my Japanese tanks! One of the best things about them is that the 37mm atg is still relevant in 1945.

John Thomas8,
Thanks for that link, very interesting.

John Thomas8 – great link have downloaded it.

I recently finished a Khalkhin Gol campaign where I was able to give the Jap tanks a good shakedown. They were effective infantry support tanks as long as there weren't any ATGs or Soviet tanks around, but that Russian 45mm gun cut through them with little effort. It was this lopsided match up that made me realize why there weren't many Jap tanks used in the Pacific.

No mention my friend.!

Amicalement
Armand

1/4 inch armor plate is still somewhat thicker than the army issue shirt……… When you don't have any tanks at all, any tank the enemy has is a good tank.

The Ma Deuce took out Type-95s, so did the M1917s. "Bunches" of Japanese tanks = bunches of easily whacked targets. The few Type 97s that encountered T-34/85s…..

Because they look cool!

Looked cool?….cooked off more like Ronson's than Shermans did to Tigers….

I watched a documentary last night about the 1937-45 war that the Japanese and Chinese fought. Very interesting and a theater that I have not paid much attention to in the past. It was kind of similar to what happened on the eastern front, with the Chinese retreating and trading space for time until they were united and prepared to counterattack effectively.

In Malaya the Commonwealth troops found that the 25-pounder AP round went clean through Japanese tanks. HE worked better.

yes the AP of 75mm guns went straight through and "overpenetrated" and they used HE instead.