"Gruntz Shooting and Damaging" Topic

Does anyone else find the Gruntz rule mechanic for shooting and damaging a bit clunky?

Roll 2d6 + Shoot value (not sure what it's called exactly) => Guard number

Roll 2d6 + Damage value => Soak

It's not that it's complex; I just find it a bit a bit too involved. It's not having to add 2d6 to a static number, it's having to compare your added value to another static number that rubs me the wrong way.

I guess you could make it more dynamic by letting the Defender also roll 2d6. The only technical part would be to reduce the Defense/Guard and Armor/Soak on all units by about 7 to account for the defensive dice roll. For example Guard/Soak: 10 would become Guard/Soak: 3+2d6.

If you wanted to go the other direction (less dynamic), then just make all the Guard/Soak numbers "10" and call it a day… but that removes any variation for Defender's ability to avoid being hit and damaged.

I have had no problem.
I'm used to Battletech and Warmachine which use a similar mechanic.

I find it fairly straightforward.

@Zematus – Not sure I want to tweak the rules to be honest. Though your mechanic is definitely doable

It's certainly not a deal breaker to be fair, and I don't doubt I'll get used to it quick enough.

I have no problem with this. The only part of the system I do have an issue with is how cheap the unit builders make high Guard values.

When you take into account the distribution of 2d6 being added to the Shoot score, it is very cheap to stop people hitting your troops. Increasing Guard values are exponentially more difficult to hit.

I really like the basic system of Gruntz and think it works well, its very quick and easy once you've got a few games under your belt, I do agree with BaldLea and would go further in saying the points system has some flaws

Word of advice: Get a bunch of differently coloured dice, so you can roll pairs of shots at the same time.

We did that for Beamstrike which also uses 2D6 and it made the game so much smoother.

I've got 6 pairs of coloured dice and could get more in a pinch.

I'm more concerned by the points system to be honest

I'm not a super hardcore veteran but from our experience, it works decently, provided people don't don't cheese out too much.

For more competitive play, it might be worth raising the cost of Guard a bit.

It's superb for narrative stuff.

Yeah, the points system works fine if you are not hyper competitive. (and most points system tends not to deal with that well, anyways)

With any "build your own" system, it helps if people are roughly on hte same page about what a typical foot soldier or tank has for stats.

For those who have played Gruntz, where did you get your minis from?

I haven't got any yet and I'm not sure where to buy them from.

Thank you

My Bwendi army is a mix of GZG sci-fi, Brigade Models and QRF moderns. You can see part of it here:
link
Infantry are GZG New Israelis, and tanks are GZG tracked AFVs: link

The scout vehicles are from Brigade Models and are old models, but they have plenty of good 15mm stuff: link

The APCs are QRF South African Ratels (modern APCs): link

I also have an Imperial Assault Group: link
The grav sleds are from GZG and the infantry are from 15mm.co.uk's Laserburn range: link

You might also consider Black Hat's Martian Empires range for a more steampunk/ John Carter approach: link

There are plenty of manufacturers out there, so it is worth just looking around to see what inspires you, but don't feel constrained by the labels on the figures or convention. If you wanted, you could easily field a bunch of SYW figures with advanced radium muskets and plassteel tunics (I'm planning to do this with my SYW Swedish army to get more out of them), or pretty much any other historical or fantasy figure according to your whim. Gruntz is certainly flexible enough to permit you to adopt many different approaches to your sci-fi gaming.

Thanks for the links and advice Dr Berserker

I should have mentioned Dropship Horizon in my last post. It's the go-to place for 15mm sci-fi news: dropshiphorizon.blogspot.ie

Most of the 15mm ranges look fine alongside each otther, so don't be afraid to mix and match.

My 15mm stuff is a mix of GZG, old Laserburn figures, Armies Army (now Brigade I believe), repainted cold war types (for low tech militia), some Khurasan and all kinds of random nonsense I don't even remember where I got.

2d6…

I'm with Rick Priestley. d6's are so 80's. I don't know why they chose to base their rules around square dice.

Other than that, Gruntz is a darn good ruleset. You can incorporate just about any mini you have into your army, and I like that.

I quite like the 2d6. It gives a nice bell curve, or something.

We currently have Gruntz 15mm 1.1 but there's talk of a 1.2 version with updated errata and I think a few rules tweaks.

Anyone know if this is happening soon? The official forum and facebook page seems sort of dead – and that's a shame as Gruntz looks a great game.

The dice system is what kept me away from it.

@Lfseeney – anything in particular?

Really dislike d6s to start with, the 2d6 helps but still very constrained.
We have ready access to other dice, prefer d10 or mixed dice.

The great thing is there are many systems to choose from.

I tend to agree that a 2d10 for one example, would be a better dice system. 2d6 works though

What's your preferred system Lfseeney?

Tomorrow's War
From Ambush Alley and Osprey.

Tomorrow's War is a bit overly complex by some reports