"Flames of war or Battlegroup Kursk" Topic

I've got two mates who are trying to tempt me into WW2 gaming. One plays Flames of War, the other Battlegroup Kursk. I've read the rules, but can't play a game for another month.

What are the pros and cons of both games? I don't want anything overly complicated, and I do think wargaming is a game not a simulation, but with some sense of realism.

Thoughts?

They play 15mm so I guess I will.

Well you could just use your 15mm figures for both games…

I write Battlegroup with Mr. Kinrade, and have never tried FoW, so Im probably not the best person to answer your question. ;)

That said, our Ironfist Publishing website has a detailed walkthrough of the system in the Downloads section and The Guild forum (www.guildwargamers.com) has a great deal of discussion in the Battlegroup section of the forum.

There are also a number of reviews online, some of which offer comparisons to FoW to a degree.

My advice… Have a game of each and see which you prefer.

Your comment…

"I don't want anything overly complicated, and I do think wargaming is a game not a simulation, but with some sense of realism."

…is pretty much how we felt about things when we started on Battlegroup.

Battlegroup as it's a lot easier than FoW.

Have played 2 games of FoW and came close to falling asleep, wanted to like it, but just wasn't the game for me.

Love Battlegroup ( apart from Art rules😁), great fun game.

Try both before you make up your mind.👍

Play both, both are good. They offer two different approaches to WW2 gaming, both being valid and offering solid entertainment.

For me Battlegroup is a far better system, and I have seen many FoW players move over to it once they see how it plays and that they can use all their FoW models with virtually no change.

But the play both and have fun suggestions are probably your best bet!

I'm not sure why you don't play FoW with your FoW friend and BGK with your BGK friend. You don't need different toys or anything. Play both.

It would be easy to play both with the same collection of miniatures.

Battlegroup is far less fiddly than FoW, with fewer independent rules to remember. There are some aspects of Battlegroup I am meh about but I greatly prefer it over FoW.

FoW tends to be more popular and you'll rarely be stuck for people to play the game with. It's a good game overall and I'd say both games will give you lots of enjoyment so you can't lose there.

Play both but buy IABSM! ;-)

Fatman

Battlegroup – excellent

I have played both, but FOW in 15mm and Battlegroup in 20mm. I think of FOW as giving the best company sized game, since you essentially move or fire by platoons, whereas Battlegroup is much more detailed. So for example, the rifle/gun group manouevering within a squad/section. With FOW, to speed things up, they split the firepower between the two bases, whereas,with BG you differentiate between the rifle group and the gun group.

Personally, I think with artillery and mortar fire BG has taken the granularity a bit too far, with about a dozen steps to adjudicate the fire from 'fre mission battery' to 'rounds complete'! It feels like being on Naval Gunfire Support course at the Larkhill trainer again! Whereas FOW have lovely quick and simple indirect fire resolution in comparison, about 5 steps tops.

So my advice is use BG for small platoon games and FOW for anything larger…

Dozen steps for artillery?

Bit of an exaggeration as there is six really… ;)

link

Walk through guide, in the link, to show it's actually fairly simple… Like any game system, the more you use it, the faster it gets. Most of the time it's very fast for me, especially when I fail to get through on the radio!

As to game size, speed of play depends largely on experience with the rules. A two platoon a side game with supporting elements should play through at a relaxed pace for an evenings gaming session.

A single platoon a side game should play in around two hours. I know some players with familiarity with the system get through bigger games but as with any rules, I'd always say start small as you learn.

Battlegroup is not '20mm'. It can be played in any of the popular scales, and says 15mm and 20mm on it I seem to remember. Most of the pictures in the book are of 20mm figures as that's what we own but many of the painting guides in the books feature 15mm models. So I have to disagree that Battlegroup is exclusively 20mm. Like most rules it can be played in any scale you wish. We have players who use 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm and 28mm to play Battlegroup. I'm sure you could do the same with FoW too.

I would back up what Piers has to say- the artillery firing in Battlegroup is pretty easy, once you get into the flow of the game. I always beef up my comms when deploying off table artillery, otherwise I tend to have the same problem as Piers
I have played it with both 20mm and 10 mm armies. With the latter, we sometimes use cms for range in order to get bigger forces onto our table, but we have also played using the "inch" measurement, which I like, as it means figure scale is nearer to ground scale than with the 20 mm figures.
Not played FoW, I was put off several years ago by the poor quality of the resin castings that were marketed by Battlefront and the odd games I have witnessed have never convinced me that I should invest time and money in armies for it when Ihave great 20mm and 10mm ranges to choose from.

Battlegroup every second of my wargaming time!!
But i do thank FoW for all the popularity, awareness and impulse their rules give to the wargaming community. Also their campaigns are great.
But, as a system, FoW is several steps behind BG.