"Cold Wars HMGS Membership meeting" Topic

Dear List

I attended the membership meeting at Cold Wars on Friday night at 7 pm.

The following items were announced

Three hotel chains are in negotiations to buy the host, two are national changes one is a regional chain. THE HOST sales rep says that all of them will NOT tear the host down but will repair and restore it bit by bit, one section at a time. The guest rooms will need the majority of the work, but the meeting rooms will need not much more than some new carpets and cosmetic changes. The heating and air conditioning plant will be replace and some electrical work done and the bathrooms repaired. This was reported by the Bod who said that the impact on us would be, if we stayed, that the hotel would lose 60 rooms at a time as they were reconditioned, but that could be taken up by surrounding hotels. They did say that the room rate then would, according to the host, go up to $149 USD a night.

The BOD also said they were looking at other venues including YORK convention center and Lancaster Convention Center, both of whom had been rejected previously and Dave Waxtel is investigating a location in Somerset County NJ. No name was mentioned.

I had a report from the owner of the Continental hotel who is heavily involved with the local hotel organization that the host is in receivership (or soon will be) to the bank. This was not said at the meeting.

The Bod announced that Fall in 2016 will be at the host and Cold Wars 2017 will be there also. After that it would be as negotiations with the host and new owners progressed.

The BOD said they were looking at a cost saving measure of buying tables for the convention. They said their largest expense each year was $60,000 USD for table and chair rental. They were investigating buying these (folding chairs) and it would cost about $25,000 USD total. The original plan, (pre-auction) was to store these at The Lancaster Host and let the Host Use them for other events and the host would pay us a fee when this was done and that the cost of the purchase would then be amortized over about four years. This plan was put in abeyance after the auction kerfuffle, because it was realized that if we did that the tables and chairs would be seized if a foreclosure was processed, and it did not mater if we owned them.

If a bank or agency does this, the release of them would not take place till all creditors with outstanding charges against the hotel were satisfied, and any assets or possessions on site would be part of "inventory" and so sold off.

No discussion was made of the chairs and table rentals for Historicon in Fredericksburg and the rental cost was not broken out for that, nor was it said if the tables and chairs allegedly stored at the host (if it came to pass) would be trucked down to Virginia) nor the cost of haulage and dunnage for that.

Nominations of officers were made. The Bod will publish them in the newsletter.

It was announced that Dave Waxtel was being sent to England to go to Salute and talk with the organizers there about the great success of the convention and importingsome of its methodology to America. This is being doen to so as make Historicon more of a success. This includes putting on large show piece but non playing games, that is dioramas for the public to "be inspired by" or "demonstration games" where a club would play the game and the general con public would be kept behind a roped off walkway around the game where they could watch (but not play). This was felt would inspire the American public to greater effort and excellence. It was also said that the HMGS was exploring the possibility of paying money to clubs or venders to do this, that is finance the construction of such games and dioramas, in part, and then possibly making a competition where the group or vendor who had the best would receive an additional cash prize in addition to the financing they had received to set it up.

One voice from the audience said that this was simply paying clubs or GM's to put on games. The Board descended on the voice and said it wasn't, that they cannot as a non-profit pay salaries, and the voice said "Semantics- you're giving them money before and after the fact to put on games."

The treasurer reported we had in excess of $280,000 USD in the bank. I do not remember the precise number, but the above is close.

As part of outreach it was suggested that we open up a funding channel to schools and teachers by which the hobby could be advanced and brought into schools as an advertisement. It was also suggested that Heather Blush do this through the "hobbyh university" and she be given expense reimbursement to do this.

No action was made on the above suggestions but they were generally applauded.

The proposed by laws changes were approved and will be sent to a renferendum. These by laws proposals appeared in TMP sometime last year.

That was the high points.

WBC bought tables and chairs when they first started using the Host about ten years ago. They were stored at the Host and the Host paid a fee per year to use them for other events. Don't remember the initial cost, but I believe they were amortized over quite a long period of time and eventually it was a break even deal.

It was announced that Dave Waxtel was being sent to England to go to Salute and talk with the organizers there about the great success of the convention and importing some of its methodology to America.

I really don't see how that will help given that the UK show circuit is so different from the US convention scene.

Note to US gamers: Salute is NOT a convention. At least not in the sense that you mean. It is a ONE DAY show open for about 6 hours. And that's it.

This includes putting on large show piece but non playing games, that is dioramas for the public to "be inspired by" or "demonstration games" where a club would play the game and the general con public would be kept behind a roped off walkway around the game where they could watch (but not play).

The you are all missing the point. The great success of shows like Salute is not the "demonstration game" but rather the great number of "participation games" on offer.

The "demo games" are often not even games, but are set up at the beginning of the show and more or less left as is. Some of us call them "diorama games"! Even a true demo game (where players are actually playing the game) is a bit less exciting than watching paint dry. Contrary to popular belief, wargaming is not a spectator sport.

"Party games" OTOH are short (often only an hour or so) and designed to attract punters, particularly non-gameers, to "have a go". There is no charge other than the entry to the show itself.

One voice from the audience said that this was simply paying clubs or GM's to put on games. The Board descended on the voice and said it wasn't, that they cannot as a non-profit pay salaries, and the voice said "Semantics- you're giving them money before and after the fact to put on games."

The voice from the audience was right.

Otto:

Thanks for taking notes and posting.

I had heard some of this from other people who attended the meeting, and my reaction then is the same now after reading your post. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

Some quick thoughts:

1. So we Americans can't put on decent looking games? How insulting. After winning awards at our past two cons perhaps then I should just stay home.

2. Buy table and chairs and store them at the Host. Forget who and how they are is going to get them to the FCC. Store them at the Host. No doubt what happened to past HMGS inventory will happen to them, only quicker. Just wow.

3. Give money to groups to build and put on show games? Have they even considered there may be other factors that lead to the lack of quality games and attendance? I could list a few as I am sure others could too.

4. So now we are going out to schools to spread the gospel of gaming? So will that be fantasy or history? I like Heather and Hobby U, but this is just another HMGS program that will waste money and have no impact – other than spending money. Again, just wow.

5. So who can guarantee what will be done to the Host if it sells, what schedule they will be on, how that will impact the facility? Seems a slim reed to depend on.

6. The two facilities mentioned were discarded for good reasons.

7. I can think of a lot better ways to make Hcon a success without sending a BoD member on a vacation to the UK. How about taking that money and doing something else instead.

8. If HMGS is in such a rush to give away money for Hcon how about giving it to award winning games that don't attend Hcon. Not that I think that is a good idea, but it does seem everyone else is bellying up to the HMGS cash bar to get their fair share of give aways.

Honestly, this organization seems to go from dumb to dumber. Good people get elected and they seem to lose their minds collectively. But the thing that seems to enable it all is the big cash reserve and thinking of ways to spend it.

"It was announced that Dave Waxtel was being sent to England to go to Salute and talk with the organizers there about the great success of the convention and importingsome of its methodology to America."

And we thought the era of poor financial decision making was over…we already know how Salute is different from East Conventions…and we all understand the difference between demonstration games and participation games.

There are fundamental differences between the approachs of English and American conventions. If the goal is to increase attendance at East conventions the concept of attracting the public with glorified diorama's posing as demonstration games is wrongheaded.

East has plenty of members who have attended Salute and can tell us all about their experience without sending a Boardmember on a junket to England. Great deal for Waxtel but not for the organization.

If HMGS wants to give money away to outstanding looking games, then start with David Bonk. Put his game in a featured area for all to see. His games are amazing. I'd put him up against anyone across the pond.

I don't know Dave Waxtel. I went to a seminar where he spoke and he seemed like a good guy. But I wonder if he goes to the UK if he will bring us all back t-shirts that say, "The BoD went to England, but all I got was this lousy t-shirt."

I think it's time for HMGS to establish a set amount as an operating capital baseline and then begin to reduce dealer table fees to attract more vendors and even reduce registration fees by $5.00 USD
This is after all a non profit and it now appears to have recovered from the Baltimoe Debacle
It appears they have made the necessary investment in computer software and hardware for registration
The best way to promote the hobby and make it more available is to make it more affordable for those who support it
Walt

The precedent for 'sponsoring' games has already been
established.

Ask 'Uncle' Duke.

I think that sending someone to Salute is a good idea. It would be odd just to send them to see the convention. However, if they are indeed going to be able to meet with the organizers and see and hear the backstage preparing, that is something else. Who knows, maybe this could become an exchange program.

It would be interesting to see some sort of a combination of the proposed Outreach Program to schools and the funding to clubs/GMs to build demo games. Having a club or individual recruit and teach new gamers would be worth the cost and efforts. When working with or around kids there is always the initial cost of background checks/clearances and school board approval even before setting foot in the building to do anything. Then you have the cost of materials needed. Financial responsibility and oversight would have to be established ahead of time. The flip side would be the added liability for such things as an injury or a sexual incident. These are things to be considered and weighed against the dedication of time and money.

A few thoughts

1. If the Host is sold to a hotel company and upgraded on a rolling basis without actually closing that would be very good news. There simply aren't many (any?) good alternate options, and any forced move is likely to entail a decline in location, and increase in costs, a further loss of attendees, or all three.

2. Sending people to England to "observe" a convention? I was actually holding back my natural overwhelming cynicism and allowing myself to believe the newest BoD was a bit of an improvement. That is over now. Congrats, guys. You have now equaled (and perhaps exceeded) your illustrious predecessors in foulness and corruption. You guys could be in government.

3. I submit that the last thing the cons need are a bunch of games no one can play. If there is a desire to throw money at games, I'd submit it would be better spent subsidizing and rewarding well done games.

Lastly, if they want to improve something, how about taking a look at the appalling registration process and why it takes them longer to register a few people than any other organization on Earth. I've heard the registration system is very difficult to use. How about buying a new one that actually works instead of sending board members on vacation?

I'd have less of a problem sponsoring American games than importing them from the UK. We have had some great looking games that people actually play in. Let's start at home first before we go looking to Europe for answers.

zoneofcontrol,

The part about insurance when going into the schools for a program is real where I live. Our CW reenactment group does school programs. We don't fire our rifles, don't bring percussion caps, don't bring black powder, don't have campfires, don't hand out food nor cooks it, don't let the kids handle even our blankets! We do a 45 minute program in front of the assembled students and we're out. ALL schools require us to have a million dollars insurance policy. It's crazy but that is the way it has been for the past 15 years or more. Some areas might be less cautious but they all ask us before we set foot into the school for verification.

Also, we can probably all guess who exactly will get the money for putting on games first… the usual suspects that are pets of the BOD for years. *yawn* Who DIDN'T see this coming?!

Seems like overall the BOD has not learned a thing. They are clueless.

I think that if the BOD is going to send a friend to England ,the logical next step is to set up an internship program where a deserving person or 2 or 3 (however many friends the BOD has ) where this person spends the summer shadowing British wargaming clubs so they can report back and show how we can improve .Then it can be expanded to the continent .

Whatever we do it should start by spending money. Then spend money on the BOD, then on friends, then for trips. I hear they have a strong gaming hobby in the far East. I think the BOD should check that out first.

I also think they should start some pre-school programs too. Get the kids early.

I had heard it was also to recruit more vendors to get them to help fill what has become a half empty vendor hall . I'm in sales and sometimes that pitch needs to be made in person .

link

This report is the very reason why while I have attended HMGS conventions, I have never joined the HMGS. I will not join an organization this profoundly stupid.

Demonstration games? Groups paid to play them? Yeah, that's going to go over like a bad case of herpes.

It's been a busy morning, so I've only had a chance to skim some of the comments above.

Having said that, I can state the following:

1) I was also at the membership meeting. (I left a very good game to attend, but it was worth it.)

2) Although I can't speak for HMGS (I'm only a mere member, not an authorized agent), my understanding is that Dave Waxtel is paying for his own trip to Salute, not HMGS. I talked to him about his trip after the meeting.

3) HMGS has been advised that the trip and the question of who is paying for it has now become an "issue" on TMP. Whether they choose to address the question here or elsewhere is up to them.

I can add more comments about buying tables, sponsoring games and outreach to younger games, but I have yet to finish my first cup of coffee.

Maybe I'll be back after lunch.

We'll see.

P.S.--+1 to Ed Mohrmann's comments above. The bridge to "sponsoring" a/k/a covering the costs and/or paying certain GMs to run games was crossed long ago, not only with Uncle Duke but with the NSDM games that were held in the Heritage Room at the Host. Such decisions fall under the discretion of the convention directors. They submit a budget for their convention to the BOD for approval. If they want to spend money on showcase games hosted by "famous" GMs in an effort to increase attendance, that's their decision.

For the record, I agree with historygamer. If you want to start compensating GMs for their efforts, David Bonk (and the rest of the Carnage and Glory GMs) should be at the top of the list.

To all,

I have just seen the comments regarding a trip to England by Dave Waxtel, a member of the HMGS Board of Directors.

Let me be PERFECTLY clear.

HMGS is NOT paying for Dave's trip to England. Dave is a committed member of HMGS, a Legion of Honor member, and one of the original participants of Wally's Basement.

He is paying for the trip out of his own pocket. He is going to see vendors at Salute in order to try to have them send their products to our conventions that would normally not be available to our members.

I am the Treasurer of HMGS, Inc. I sign the checks. Most of you know me.

So whatever has transpired in the past, please do not think that this Board would consider extravagant junkets or other wasteful spending.

If anyone has any questions, PLEASE contact me. I am here to serve the membership.

Respectfully,
John Spiess
Treasurer, HMGS, Inc.

FOR MY OWN PART!!!
and only on the hard facts of the case.

If the cost for tables and chairs is, as the BOD said, $60,000 USD a year, then buying our tables and chairs for $25,000 USD or so which is the figure quoted is a good idea. Even when you add on the cost of storing them for a year in say a large self-storage facility plus the cost of hauling them around, you still come to a favorable savings of cost over as soon as two years.

The sticking point is NOT the costs, or event he storage and the haulage and dunnage, it is the labor to set them up and distribute them at the facility wherever they are. Hopefully enough volunteers would be found to do so. HAVING DONE THIS myself for TriaDCon for two years it would take about 45 to 60 man hours to set up the rooms at the host, so if you had a crew of 6 you could do it in 10 hours. That's even not too outlandish to hire temporary help to do. As I said I have supervised this sort of thing for corporate events, social events etc. I am sure we could get a work gang of 30 who show up Thursday ahead of time to do it in an hour or two.

The questions and dilemmas come in with when your property is out of your control. Beyond the dangers of dealing with a facility in foreclosure are those of simple routine. Each time we had an event we would have to COUNT the number of tables we had at "The Host" for example to find out how many had "evaporated" since the last convention or had been broken or rendered unusable. I also know how hotels work. If we had them at the host, there would be nothing to stop the Host from renting them to ANOTHER hotel the other 50 weeks of the year and helping a friend out. Who then is in charge and responsible for them? What if the host or any "loaning hotel" is lackadaisical about their care or treatment or doesn't return them and "forgets" to and the Host is too busy to follow up and they are lost. What if the count is found to be 20 short? Who goes around and is responsible for the shrinkage, damage? What if they rent them out to a hotel who needs them, but at the same time is renting tables from another vendor and the other vendor likes our brand spanking new tables and decides to send back their clunky, junky broken tables and take ours instead.

The imponderables of such a move are staggering. Much the same with chairs.

I think that IF we truly spend $60,000 USD a year on tables and chairs, then it's an ideal candidate for a cost saving program. I also think that it would be a thing to do even if we had to pay for storage and haulage and set up, provided the rates are not to skyrocket, and as I said, I am sure many would volunteer to help set them up, without any sort of recompense and do it for the good of the hobby and the con. I know I would. I KNOW that even at the age of 67 I am robust enough to set up the Dystelfink in 8 hours all alone. I am sure many would help.

As for Salute. I think that the culture of war gaming in England is quite different from that in America. I also know from discussions here and elsewhere that this is evinced by the extreme hostility of many Americans to the idea of paying homage to a game they can't play in, especially ones where you are kept at a respectful distance or must stand with hat in hand tugging your forelock as a sign of respect. I'm exaggerating of course, but not on the general antipathy to American gamers to that sort of thing.

The only other news I have which I did not put in the report I made above, but have through reliable sources is that the Dealers were once again outraged at some things going on in Wally's basement and the competition posed therein in, AND the rather cavalier and autocratic attitude of HMGS towards them, and six of them, some of them very well known, will not be coming to Cold Wars next year.

I can say no more as to the particular ones. That was told to me in confidence. However I CAN say something else with regard to an incident in the dealers area which rebounds to the shame (if true) NOT of the BOD, NOT of the dealers, but of the gamers.

As it was told to me many dealers were upset because one or two persona AT the Flea-Market were selling products of the dealers in the Flea market. The incident was specifically with regard to flags.

The complaint was that the person in the Flea-Market was selling these flags for $40 USD where they were on sale in the dealer area for $30. USD

That's right, you read it right. The dealers were complaining about them selling these things at a HIGHER price than in the dealers area. What they were complaining about was that people were buying them and other things at the Flea Market rather than the dealers area because they didn't want to walk down the hill through the cold and damp to go to the dealers area.

To me, if true, this is more a complaint of the sloth and stupidity of gamers, who don't want to walk a hundred yards and have to put a jacket on to save $10. USD IF TRUE it says far more about the gamers than the perfidy of the flea-marketeers. This is especially astonishing as the weather was largely cool, but not frigid, and mostly sunny, and the walk is not that far. If I can do it at 67 then others can.

I spent about 2/3 of the money spent in the dealers area and that which I spent in the Flea-Market was in buying things not sold in the dealers area, or, for that matter, ANYWHERE.

But again, as I said in my post on the Cold Wars AAR- The Ugly, it goes to the, as Don Featherstone said "The petty animosity and [female dog]yness" of gamers. Their laziness too.

Finally, I agree with History Gamer that we have MORE than enough big, splashy extravaganzas here, and already done by people like Bob and Cleo Liebl, Pete Panzeri, Walt O'Hara, Howard Whitehouse, Bob Giglio, and many, many, many others, that rival the best England can offer, PLUS they all are participation games. Further these people do it without any remuneration from any one, nor do they want it.

The

Thanks for this. I remember now why I let my membership lapse.

I will lead this off by saying I was not at the meeting. I didn't receive notice of it until a few days before the con .
Was this junket (reminds me of local politicians going on a fact finding mission to Monte Carlo to see if the gaming industry there can help the struggling casinos in the States)put forward for discussion or as "the board has decided"?

John -thank you for responding -I did notice yo did not address the potential paying/subsidizing of non-HMGS clubs/people to put on games at conventions? was it put forward like it reads in some posts above ? or was it merely 1 of many ideas tossed around and doesn't really deserve response ?
Thanks,

PS- Unfortunately as you know -you will be tarred with the same brush as previous boards until you prove otherwise . and I have to say that this is not a good start .
When you state that HMGS is not paying for this- do you mean there will be absolutely no expense re-imbursement or use of the corporate credit card(s) ?

Seems to me that if they take the three conventions, Historicon, Cold Wars and Fall In and spread them around the country such as one on the east coast, one in the Midwest and one in the West, they might attract more people and vendors who cannot travel back and forth to the east coast for all three.

The issue of set up time/cost for chairs that HMGS would buy and store should not be any big deal. The Host personnel took care of all that with the tables/chairs that WBC bought and stored there. Remember, the Host got to use them the rest of the year . That said, the wear and tear from year to year is an issue – there was "attrition" over time.

Some comments

I did speak to a BOD member about the Host and that conversation was pretty much identical to the discussion of the Host at the meeting.

Doing something about the tables makes sense to me as long as we can get some surety from the "New Host" that they will be properly cared for.

We should stop looking for ways to spend money. The answer to what to do with the surplus is to reduce costs – to attendees and to dealers. Conventions are the bread and butter of HMGS. The income should balance expenses

WBC used their budget surplus to subsidize attendee costs at the new ( admittedly somewhat more remote ) venue in Seven Springs. They are making up the hotel room difference between what the Host costs and the new place, about $20 USD per night per room IIRC. The room also comes with a small voucher for the onsite food. Not sure what they are doing on the vendor/dealer side other than they would get the same room subsidy.

John thanks for coming on and addressing this and setting the record straight this is the kind of leadership this organization needs not the silence of the past. I have noticed a decline in all conventions there are many reasons why, when you look at the gaming tables on a Saturday night and there half empty you need not look further. We must look at the basics why do people come attend our conventions? I can tell you two major ones Gaming and buying (in that I include seeing friends). So for me that is what the focus should be we should base our convention model on successful convention right here in the US example GENCON being the major one. Pay a company to run the Con from start to finish, this will save the 100's of free rooms we give out to volunteers (that number may be greater or lower), I take nothing away from the volunteers they are great! Give the vendors a break on the price or we will lose some big company's soon the profits are declining I know several of them, why come when you can save the time and effort for small reward. The money is there "excess of $280,000 USD" lets use it for better things like lowering the cost to get in. Lower the vendor prices and invest in game masters who are the true hero's of our conventions.

Apologies to Dave for the misundertanding.

That said, I think HMGS should start with it's own members if it wants better games at Hcon. If there are reasons that award winning GMs don't attend Hcon now at the FCC. Wouldn't it be easier to start by seeing if that can be overcome than brining in demo games for thousands of dollars?

Some clubs put on great looking games, but so do individuals. I cant think of two award winning GMs (not in clubs) that don't attend Hcon. One lives in Alexandria, the other in Baltimore. So the question remains, why aren't they attending Hcon now?

John – some of the other ideas to spend money on are dumb, in my opinion. Some have been tried, some are just jaw dropping (chairs and tables, really?).

Apologies to Dave for the misundertanding.

That said, I think HMGS should start with it's own members if it wants better games at Hcon. If there are reasons that award winning GMs don't attend Hcon now at the FCC. Wouldn't it be easier to start by seeing if that can be overcome than brining in demo games for thousands of dollars?

Some clubs put on great looking games, but so do individuals. I cant think of two award winning GMs (not in clubs) that don't attend Hcon. One lives in Alexandria, the other in Baltimore. So the question remains, why aren't they attending Hcon now?

John – some of the other ideas to spend money on are dumb, in my opinion. Some have been tried, some are just jaw dropping (chairs and tables, really?) The only reason the BoD is able to contemplate such questionable moves is becasue of the money amassed on the backs of members, attendees and dealers.

The best use of the quarter million dollars held in reserve by the organization would be to reduce costs to participants and dealers. It seems outrageous to me that attendees are just increasing the money in the bank for the organization. What would happen if all entrance fees were reduced by half.

Doug-
"Seems to me that if they take the three conventions, Historicon, Cold Wars and Fall In and spread them around the country…"

Historicon, Cold Wars and Fall-In! are cons put on by HMGS, Inc.. HMGS, Inc. is a regional chapter and these three cons are put on within its geographical boarders. There are other chapters of HMGS throughout the country. They put on cons of their own.

As a GM who has gotten a stack of those little trophies for games, I'd be happy with a few moderate attempts to make life easier for GMS. For example, if I'm going to run a long game two or three times, couldn't there be an easy way to just have the table dedicated rather than moving each instance of the game around? Then I could leave it set up.

I start off building a table with a three-figure dollar trip to home depot…so it's not about money. But if they could make some effort to make things easier on GMs that would be appreciated.

"…they could make some effort to make things easier on GMs that would be appreciated."

Truer words were never spoken. Like you, I have won awards for my games at HMGS. I am really only able to put on games of that level because other people help. I can't carry all that in by myself. I can't set it all up in an hour by myself. I can't carry it out all by myself. Where is the help for GMs who put on such high end games that HMGS claims it wants?

Where is the HMGS assist? Where is the parking for GMs? Where is the help loading and unloading? A lot of money is going to other programs now. I see a handful of trophies, freebie judges, no GM Help Desk. Doesn't take a genius to figure out what is needed.

I have said it before and I'll say it again – HMGS does nothing to manage its gaming areas day of the convention.

To all,

Since my earlier post, I saw some additional items that could probably use some clarification.

First, to answer a question about the trip to Salute asked by grtbrt:
"When you state that HMGS is not paying for this- do you mean there will be absolutely no expense re-imbursement or use of the corporate credit card(s)?"

Answer: There will be absolutely no expense re-imbursement or use of the corporate credit card. Dave does not even have a corporate credit card.

Regarding paying people or clubs to run non-participation convention games:
Non-participation games are NOT being considered at all. The discussion (and it was only a discussion), was thinking about the possibility of having a competition between some clubs in order to try and increase the attendance of their members. Yes, cash prizes were discussed, but so were other options. The whole point was putting forth an idea to maybe get some excitement in a project on the club level which would encourage extra attendance.

Regarding after-school clubs:
We are creating a program to encourage historical miniature wargaming by supporting after-school clubs. We have included a small amount of grant money in the budget to try out the idea. Frankly, the initial amount is literally less than the amount of money we spend on coffee for vendors in the dealer area. I know, since I worked on the budget. The budget is available on line for any member to view and ask questions. If the program works, we will consider an increase in funding going forward. Details of the program will be posted on the HMGS website very shortly. The program was announced at the membership meeting so that everyone would have an opportunity to inform their local schools of the plan since the grant request would need to come from the PTA or similar entity.

Regarding buying tables:
It is well known that table rental expenses for conventions are increasing. We have several very good options for investing in buying tables. However, we need to wait a bit longer on a decision until we know more about the future of the Host. It shouldn't be much longer.

I hope this information helps to settle some concerns about fiscal irresponsibility that have been voiced above.

As always, Respectfully,
John Spiess
Treasurer, HMGS, Inc.

Thank you for your clarification, John.

John:

First off for those of us that could not attend the meeting Friday night (I was running a pick up game with 8 players), thank you for posting here. It is very helpful and very much appreciated.

Quick questions:

You said, "If the progrqam works, we will consider an increase in funding going forward."

What is the metric for success? That's fine if you want to encourage wargaming, but the same might be accomplished in many other ways too.

If you want to put money into something how about a publicly open website with lots of pictures to start. Right now HMGS has zero presences on the internet. I do not count the YM website either.

Just FYI, but a friend recently signed up on the YM website as a guest to see what gaming groups were in his area. Once he did he clicked on a link which took him to a members only yahoo group that he could not get into. Bring back an internet presence. Pay a company to put together a site and post pictures to it after each con. Seems like a better expense than some.

You said, "We have several very good options for investing in buying tables."

While I understand the concern about expense, at least to me chairs and tables are part of the cost of doing business. I am surprised that the Host doesn't have any chairs, but considering they took down the drapes in some rooms, perhaps not.

Getting into the table owning, storing, renting, transporting business seems a nightmare for an organization short on volunteers and poor on long term oversight of assets. There are so many questions on this issue, the Host situation seems the least of them.

If you want to promote better games coming to the cons, look at the PELA winners for the past fives years and start there. Throwing money at clubs or creating a club competition does not seem a wise move. Wasn't this already done some years ago? Games are run by individuals who belong to clubs. Again, I can name at least two or three GMs who have won PELA awards that no longer come to Hcon. You might consider addressing those issues before spending money.

John .
Thank you to the very quick response to my question . I feel more confidant now . On the expense part anyway ,not so much on the usefulness or practicality of the junket, But my question was answered .

Regarding the afterschool program – I would be very hesitant to have the PTA be the conduit -In my experience (2 boys ,14 & 11) The PTA tends to be a political social club and is very willing to divert money from its original target . (New York and Indiana PTA's -others may be beacons of usefulness)
Teachers and principals ,if not the students themselves are a much better option.
Perhaps HMGS needs to reach out to existing school clubs first to find out practicality and what actually would benefit them. I do know that there is a school near me in Tarrytown ,NY that has such a club and it's teacher is a viewer of TMP and a HMGS member . He could offer insights .

For the record – I thought Otto's last post was spot on. :-)

Dear Brian 98

If the diorama games and demo games are not being considered at all, what then does Salute have for us to copy? It's a one day dealer focused convention where people drive an hour or so, buy stuff and leave? They do not camp out as our gamers do.

Second if Dave is NOT going on behalf of the society why bring it up AT the membership meeting and the Bod waxed joyful about all we could learn, which was the response of the Board?

And I go back to the first. What can Salute which is so different a con, possibly tell us that our own GM's can't.

As for helping GM's out, I recall about a decade ago I was working with Pete Panzeri on the GM help desk, which was bitterly resented by the then BOD and they (the help desk) did a lot of things like trying to help gamers load and unload, and they did a fairly good job of managing the tables, AND Pete Panzeri was not retiring about going out and schlepping tables to help the gamers. For this they got nothing, and after Pete left it all cachet with the Bod was gone and the carts we had bought disappeared, and even the sign and the equipment vanished.

As a GM of long standing, I have pretty much seen that as far as help from the organization I was on my own and have learned now how to marshal my terrain and troops and have my own carts and equipment to haul it to and from the games. As a GM my advice to the HMGS is 'DON'T HELP ME!" You'll only make it worse! My everlasting memory of this is that at one game I was NOT running a game, but a friend was and asked to use one of the Society Carts. Richard Egtvedt who was manning the help desk insisted he leave a $20 USD deposit AND his drivers license as security while he used the cart. This he put in a secure place, in the open on a rack in the closet behind the then help desk in the Dystlefink ballroom.

I don't care what your policy may be, I saw it and my friend suffered the humiliation of it.

This is why many GM's don't participate any more.

We don't need your help.

civildisobedience

For example, if I'm going to run a long game two or three times, couldn't there be an easy way to just have the table dedicated rather than moving each instance of the game around? Then I could leave it set up.

If the Events Manager is on the ball this should be SOP.
It is not a BoD policy issue – it is a competence issue.

Duncan Adams
Historicon Events Manager, 2006-2011

Read the reply John already gave, Otto--

"He is paying for the trip out of his own pocket. He is going to see vendors at Salute in order to try to have them send their products to our conventions that would normally not be available to our members."

I have had no problem at all in the past requesting a table upon which I could leave my board set up overnight. You just have to ask. But that would be too easy, wouldn't it? 8)=

I agree with Nazrat. In the past when I required the ability to set up and leave the board set up all the time, I had no problem getting that arranged. Of course, I was running two games a day on the same table.

When I needed a table near a wall outlet, that was arranged for me.

The qualifying factor was I could justify the granting of the space, AND most especially, I contacted the Event coordinator EARLY!!! I contacted them way before spaces started to fill up.

It can be easily done and they have in the past been most accommodating.

My friend was running his game and had an 9' long boat. He had one game in one room then was moved to another room entirely. Not just a shuffle over of tables, another room, so he had to take his boat apart into pieces to transport it to the other location.

I don't have a problem with encouraging vendors from England to come to our conventions to give gamers access to new products. The challenge is how to do that in a way that makes economic sense. The reason there are so many vendors in England producing great figures and related items that we don't have access to here is the shipping cost. Even ordering from a website requires a 30% premium on the cost. For some, that increased cost is worth it to get something that is unique, but in general the higher cost is a problem.

The only way foreigh manufactures can be price competitive is to produce the product in the US, not ship it from England. My guess is most manufacturers have already done the math on bringing their product to an HMGS East show and the number just don't work. I wish it were otherwise but there it is….

Good point. On top of that many of the manufactures already have US reps. What does that do to their relationship if you bring the producer over instead of the distributor?

Also, at least some manufacturers here in the US have already decided it is not worth their time or expense to attend an HMGS con. Given they are right, how would it make sense for someone from the UK to come then?

Have to agree with Panceri2 and History gamer. The economics have already put in their verdict. I used to get figures from Tradition through an American Rep. The American rep banged up shop and now I have to order from England. It's enormously expensive and I have to practically have an act of congress to do it. It's shipping AND customs!

So I agree, I don't see how you're going to get vendors to come here.

But wait!!!!!!!

Wouldn't it be better to try and get our own US venders to come back!???? Or would that mean you would have to be nice to them.

It strikes me that HMGS was founded, grew and prospered entirely under the auspices of American Gamers and American work. I suspect that it could be done so again. All we need is to resurrect Wally Simon, Pat Condray, and all the others who were in the basement.

Want to bring the venders back, try cutting the costs and fees. Oh yes, you could try and be nice to them too.

Oh yes… then there's the physical constraints.

How are the vendors from England going to get almost a ton of lead over here for people at American conventions to look, at fondle, staple, fold spindle and mutilate. I look at the set up some vendors like OLD Glory and Sergeant major miniatures bring and can't conveive of European vendors bringing the same.

On the other hand they could bring themselves and a fee samples and sit at one table with an order pad… but… why not just order over the net.

I don't begrudge Dave his vacation and I wish he has fun at Salute. But asking the English to rescue our Historicon is rather odd.

Otto

European vendors would also be at the mercy of the exchange rate, which as it stands currently is not in their favor for coming over here .