"Some demographic questions" Topic

Anyone have some numbers on how many men from Northern states ended up serving in the Confederate army and vice versa?

(and please keep politics out of it, please and thank you, just curious about a number, given that the war was frequently enough "brother against brother").

For that matter, men who ended up fighting in both armies at one point or another.

I suspect more CSA 'citizens' remained loyal to the Union than went the other way.

– Generals(/Admirals) who fought against their state link

– Six Union strongholds in the CSA link

The National Parks Service Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System gives counts and names of soldiers and sailors. Link for soldiers=link (do search by state by allegiance – eg., Alabama just under 3000 for the USA and just under 200,000 for the CSA). Integrity can't be guaranteed – based on what people registered.

"The Civil War was the first war in American history in which a substantial proportion of the adult male population participated. Almost every American would have known friends, family members, or neighbors who marched off to war, many never to return. The service records of these men, North and South, are contained in the Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System.

Please note that the Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System contains just an index of the men who served in the Civil War with only rudimentary information from the service records (including name, rank and unit in which they served). The full service records are housed at the National Archives and Records Administration. Click here for information about obtaining copies of those records, using the film number listed in the Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System record.

Additionally, all records in this database have been transcribed from the National Archives' original documents; alternate names and/or misspellings are recorded as initially documented."

I'm always a bit reluctant to post, given the amount of expertise on the period by many of the regular posters.

I will say that it would be in the border states (Missouri, Maryland etc) that you got the greatest divides amongst the population. For obvious reasons such as ease of enlistment (bit harder to travel from Maine to join the CSA), previous troubles etc.

interesting question. By 'Confederate Army,' do you mean
the NATIONAL 'Confederate Army' or State units (which made
up the great bulk of what we think of as the 'Confederate
Army') ?

The 'National' CSA was quite small, however.

Border states – point taken, however here in North
Carolina, both the Eastern and Western portions of the
state saw men enlist in Federal (USA) service, perhaps
because in the eastern portion, many populous areas were
captured by the USA early in the conflict, influencing
men to join.

In the western portion, Union sentiment ran high from the
start and several regiments were enlisted in the Union
cause.

My understanding is that most officers from the South serving with the Federal Army prior to the Civil War resigned their commands and joined the Southern forces, while most enlisted men from the South remained in service with the Federal army after the outbreak of the Civil War.

Kevin

There were a few from Maine, notably Danville Leadbetter, who threw in their lot with either the army or navy of the Confederacy. Maine was second only to Massachusetts in the number of men who joined the federal Navy,and with so many Mainers working on packets and steamers in southern ports when war broke out, it was natural that some would decide to stay there.

Leadbetter was a former US Army engineer who had resigned his commission at the end of 1857. He enlisted in the Confederate army when war broke out was appointed a major of engineers in the CS Regular army. He subsequently oversaw construction of fortifications and other defenses throughout the war, including those at Mobile Bay, Alabama.

A reasonable assessment of him may be found here:

link

The book, "Lincoln's Loyalist," takes a state-by-state look at southerners who fought against secession and the confederacy. Includes numbers and a breakdown by state.

link

Depends on your definition of "Northern states." Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri are not very Northern in geographical or political terms, but they were Union states, in that they never seceded. Certainly many individuals from all three of them "went South" and joined Confederate forces. Among prominent Confederate officers from non-seceded states, there were: Pemberton (PA), Steuart (MD), Price (MO), Breckinridge (KY), Buckner (KY) and Helm (Lincoln's brother-in-law, KY).

Meanwhile, many residents of (West) Virginia and (East) Tennessee joined Union forces, as well as smaller but sizable numbers from other areas, such as northern Alabama. And there were the slaves of the South who joined Union forces in large numbers. Prominent Union officers from seceded states include: Farragut (TN), Gibbon (NC?), Thomas (VA).

I have seen estimates that as many as 200,000 white men from Confederate states fought for the Union. I don't know how the West Virginians fit into that number. It is significant in the context of 900,000 or so men who fought for the Confederacy.

There appear to have been few northerners who fought for the south, and most of them seem to have done so because they were living in the south at the time, not due to any strong convictions.

Interesting stuff all, thanks for sharing.

A regiment of "southern northerners" or vice versa would be quite interesting as a touch of flavour in a gaming scenario.

Try the 2nd Alabama Cavalry (White). Interesting unit.

If only I could remember the source. 1864. Two regiments trying to take the same road at night, and the leader of one shouted to his opposite number "who are you?"
"I'm (Whoever) Colonel, 1st Tennessee Cavalry."
"You're a liar! I'M Colonel of the First Tennessee Cavalry!"

And then the jostling between the men of the 1st Tennessee Cavalry (CS) and 1st Tennessee Cavalry (US) turned into an actual battle.

But the guys are quite right to point out that most of the actual picking and choosing is in the upper south, or by men whose careers and marriages divided their loyalties.

Sometimes the conflict of allegiance ended far more tragically than commonly known. For example, Commodore Isaac Mayo of Maryland. He enlisted in the US Navy in 1809. Served as midshipman on USS Wasp during the war of 1812. Commanded USS Poinsett during the Second Seminole War. Was on the board that founded the US Naval Academy. Commanded the naval battery at the battle at Veracruz during the Mexican war. Commanded the African squadron on anti-slavery patrol from his flag ship, USS Constitution. By 1861, he was the oldest and longest serving Naval officer with southern political leanings. He offered his resignation when he saw his state was likely to leave the Union. However, It did not and would not. He then wanted to rescind the resignation. Lincoln refused the resignation and instead dishonorably discharged him. Mayo shot himself the day he received Lincoln's letter.