"Online Dispute Resolution (EU only)" Topic

People may find this of use to tackle things like illegal restocking fees and failure to refund postage for returns:

Online Dispute Resolution – Additional Information Requirements for Traders

All businesses selling goods and services online to consumers in the EU must supply a link to the EU Online Dispute Resolution Platform on their website, along with the traders email address, and where applicable, include this information in their terms and conditions online.

This EU-wide platform aims to facilitate the online resolution of contractual disputes between EU consumers and traders over purchases made online. The legislation that introduced this Platform is the ADR Directive 2013 and supplemented by the Regulation on Consumer ODR 2013. The effective date for use of the new platform for consumers and traders is 15 February 2016.

For those already committed to an ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) scheme, this will be in addition to giving details, on the website, of the certified ADR provider serving their sector.

This platform is especially useful in cross border disputes.

The link traders need to supply: ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr

Trading Standards' will enforce the rules in the UK. They may take civil enforcement action which may result in a court order to comply with the additional information requirement in the Regulations.

Any failure to comply with such a court order could result in an unlimited fine or up to two years in prison.

FSB link

Strangely I became aware of this on a day when PayPal released payment for a UK order held back due to the USA's money transfer regulations.

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Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
Shop | Rules | eBay | Twitter

another oppressive diktat from EEC big brother

Russians will adore FSB link!

another oppressive diktat from EEC big brother

Hardly. Without the EU, consumers would have pretty poor rights when it came to buying online.

For a business such as Fighting 15s that has 40 to 45% of its customer base in EU countries outside the UK, laws that give EU customers the confidence to buy online are a good thing. The UK itself does not provide a big enough customer base to create a viable business for some of us, and anything that damages that reach to customers across Europe is in fact a bad thing.

Thanks for pointing out this change in the law, Martin.

Without the EU, consumers would have pretty poor rights when it came to buying online.

True enough.

those trading properly will not have need for this though
but we must still supply the info
thanks for letting us know.

Postage charges have just about killed my trade to continental Europe and the VAT thing would have finished off the rest if I didn't just ignore it.

The bureaucrat's assumption that a 'small' firm has half a dozen clerks to deal with the paperwork is nonsense but our own government does little to support us one-man businesses – we don't pay enough tax to be important.

Cheers Martin. Reminds me I need to sort our Ts&Cs and ICO registration out.

(I'd assumed Italwars was being sarcastic!)

Postage charges have just about killed my trade to continental Europe and the VAT thing would have finished off the rest if I didn't just ignore it.

The bureaucrat's assumption that a 'small' firm has half a dozen clerks to deal with the paperwork is nonsense but our own government does little to support us one-man businesses – we don't pay enough tax to be important.

Your mileage may vary, Tony. :-) Personally, small packet postage charges to Europe are not much higher than first class signed for small parcel to the UK, and do not in my experience deter customers. A sub-2kg tracked and signed order might cost £17.00 GBP in the EU compared with £11.00 GBP special D in the UK. It's not a deal breaker on a box that can contain a few hundred quid of troops.

I'm VAT registered and don't in general experience any trying issues with selling to or buying from Europe. If I sold digital products, to which assume you are alluding, I'd have farmed them out to a service that hosted them and handled VATMOSS for me. Of course it may be that the rules for physical products change to be like those for digital products, in which case I'll adapt (whether the UK stays in or leaves the EU, those rules would still affect trade with the EU if you want to trade legally). Being within the EU and not having to worry about cross-border taxes to consumers is as far as I'm concerned a good thing.

As with many small businesses it is just me. Plus a part-time web and picture editor based in Sweden, and an accountant that I bother once or twice a year. If I found the book-keeping more of a chore, I'd simply spend less time on internet forums… :-)

Best, Ian

(I'd assumed Italwars was being sarcastic!)

Sarcasm has to be marked on the internet in irony brackets, thus <Fe++> you think? </Fe++> :-)

Ian

As far as I know the rules HAVE been extended to physical products (July last year ?). I'm not VAT registered and send all my stuff in the UK 2nd class untracked – that makes a BIG difference.

My products are low value and high weight. A 2kg packet of my bases would be less than £60.00 GBP worth and costs £13.48 GBP compared to £2.80 GBP to the UK.

European postage has increased by over 120% in the past 6 years if you factor in the constantly changing weight bands.

I'm not anti-EU, I'll be voting to stay in June, but the use of sledgehammers to crack the wrong nuts always seems to come down on MY nuts.

As far as I know the rules HAVE been extended to physical products (July last year ?)

VAT MOSS for physical products is still just a proposal and there will be discussions about it in 2016. I'm sure Martin Stephenson would have phoned me about it if not. :-)

I don't know how you calculate postage. My shop does it by weight. I by and large charge small parcel rate, because paint always requires it, and everything goes 1st class recorded because PayPal advises to send it trackable and customers want it quickly, if not the day before yesterday. Over 2kg abroad and the delivery charge doubles every 2kg or part thereof, which is rough because a UK order that size goes free, but makes for a huge difference. None the less I still send quite sizeable orders abroad – except to Norway, where crippling taxes keep order values under the import tax threshold, which is quite low. No one in Norway ever orders much above £20.00 GBP at a time: if that behaviour happens across across the EU following Brexit, well it's catastrophe time. (Yay, Project Fear…)

Since the Royal Mail decided it needed to make a profit, all postage rates have shot up. They're still cheap compared with other nations' services costs, such as Australia Post. The cost of delivery for mail order is just something customers have to bear, because it quite simply isn't possible to get everything at shows (a number of traders quite simply no longer go to shows) unless all you want is boxes of plastic figures and boutique SF games…

The cost equations for bases are the same for everyone. What does it tell you about selling cheap, bulky goods by mail order?

Yes Ian, I went and checked and I'd remembered wrong. It was accepted as a necessary step by the Commission but hasn't yet convinced the Nations. Give them time, they will con the Germans into accepting it.

There are very few sellers of magnetic MDF bases in Europe and all in the UK AFAIK. They are not that cheap or particularly bulky, just heavy. I don't sell non-magnetic bases so don't compete in that market.

PayPal can advise all it likes but my postage costs have to be kept low to sell to a market in which my product is fairly 'niche'. In 9 years trading I have had a tiny number of issues with non-delivery so, for me, the extra cost is not worth it.

Postal costs internationally have increased since the scrapping of some of the co-operative agreements and the greater need for security of air freight, RM profits have very little impact.