"How are our metal figures produced?" Topic

I specialise in stupid questions and this may be the daftest yet. I take it so much for granted when shiny metal figures arrive, mostly in the legendary dark brown boxes and packed in that infuriating white fluff, that leaves fibres on them for ages. But how are they made?

I am beginning to recognise characteristics of the individual sculptors eg Paul Hicks' facial expressions. That is almost a question in itself, who are the big names?

But, stick to the subject Liam, I am fascinated by the process that sees their work arrive in the post. What materials do they sculpt in? What are the moulds then made of? How long will they last for metal figures? Do they deteriorate with time? Are they readily replaced, good as new? Are there dozens of identical moulds churning out Ney and his ADCs, or just the single master? How long does it take to make each figure? I would love to see some description of how it is done and, even more, some photos of the stages of production.

My apologies if this is an incredibly naive question and I stress I am not talking about plastics.

OH cringe…..I have now found there is a forum for just this topic. "Moldmaking and casting". (It is not a busy forum, but quite fascinating. Take a look!). I'll forgive that our trans-Atlantic cousins have their own unique way of spelling, but wish I could now erase this!

My understanding is this, but I'm sure others will correct me where I stray:

What materials do they sculpt in?
Mostly Milliput or similar, but masters of vehicles can be made from a variety of materials

What are the moulds then made of?
Silicone

How long will they last for metal figures? Do they deteriorate with time?
I think it's a matter of use not time. The more figures you cast from a mould the more it will deteriorate. (I think due to the high temperatures involved)

Are they readily replaced, good as new?
You have to make a new mould from the original masters.

Are there dozens of identical moulds churning out Ney and his ADCs, or just the single master?
That would depend on the manufacturer

How long does it take to make each figure?
Seconds. Bear in mind each mould will have about a dozen 28mm figures.

They are made with tears from crying kittens.

What are the moulds then made of?
Silicone

Or, as in my case, vulcanised rubber….

Doug

What materials do they sculpt in?
The masters can be made from magisculpt, kneadatite (green stuff or brown stuff), milliput, brass wire and in the case of vehicles plastic card, strips etc

What are the moulds then made of?
For resin casting, RTV silicone, for metal casting vulcanised rubber

How long will they last for metal figures? Do they deteriorate with time?
Depends on use. Both casting and physical action wears the mould. The wear can be gradual so you sometimes don't see it until it gets quite bad.

Are they readily replaced, good as new?
From the original master you make a master mould. From that you cast masters, clean those up and make a production mould. The production mould takes the wear so you have to make a new one from the masters.

Are there dozens of identical moulds churning out Ney and his ADCs, or just the single master?
Depends. We have some vehicles split across two or three moulds (hills in one, turrets in another) whereas others may have the whole thing in one mould. It's often to do with practicalities as you want similar bill items in a mould.

How long does it take to make each figure?
Thr master can take some time to make. Sometimes it just doesn't go right so you do it again and again, or you put it on one side.

Casting is quicker, spin, pour, cool, remove (check, clean, sort, pack)

I thought the Wargame Fairy brought them.

If you are really curious, the manufacturers are usually happy to show you how things are done. When I visited the Reaper factory in Texas during ReaperCon, they took us on tour, let one person choose a figure, found the mold, and cast a batch of figures, and each of us got a sample. I've also visited the US Minifigs facility, which used to be in Denver, and they were quite happy to show me the place and talk about how things are made. You might have to look around a bit to see who is near where you are (Hint: it won't be Reaper, since you are in the UK).

Grelber

Baccus normally do an open day at their factory the same weekend as their Joy of Six show (June/July ish) – you might want to book a place if within travelling distance of Sheffield.

And you can normally edit your posts on TMP for an hour.

YouTube spincasting

This may help tell you about the making of moulds.

link

In the Darkness of moon lit nights we go to a special place in the forest under the 500 year old Oak tree, then with a bat head and an owl wing we dance backwards around a large bonfire --wait --- no that's something else we do ???
seriously --here at Old Glory it is sometimes done with a lot of mold throwing and cursing.
regards
Russ Dunaway

The Wargames Fairy about to deliver another order!

A prayer's as good as bayonet on a day like this.

You can model the original figures in Polymer Clay( Sculpey or Fimo ) , which has many advantages over epoxy, and a couple of disadvantages.
The disadvantages :~
First , it needs to be cooked to harden it, which requires an oven. This is hardly a problem since a Baby Belling or similar does the job very well at minimal expense.
Second,the fired figures can't stand the pressure of a vulcaniser used to make a production mould, which means that the first mould needs to be a room temperature RTV one , from which you create the multiple copies in metal which can then be used to make the vulcanised production mould.
(BUT Low temperature vulcanising rubbers are starting to appear, which may change this. )
So in the end there are still two moulds made, exactly as required for an epoxy master.

The advantage is that as a sculpting material I find it much superior to the epoxies I have tried, but maybe there are others I haven't tried.
You can leave a WIP figure without it hardening.
Another advantage is that the original is very easy to cut up and modify to create variants.
I have always been baffled as to why I seem to be the only person using it.

When we did our Burrows & Badgers: Freelances Kickstarter, I did a step-by-step on making one of the figures, and our mouldmaker did some videos on the moulding and casting process…

Sculpting:
link

Moulding and casting:
link

Hope that's useful!

cheers
Michael

If anyone is interested, the next Baccus Open Day will be on Saturday 16th July (the day before this year's excellent Joy of Six show).

You can get a flavour of what to expect here link

If anyone is interested in booking a place please get in touch asap as they fill up quickly.

Because Mr Barton you are a genius sir, that's why

That is really interesting. Foolishly, I had assumed you used Miliput/GS like "everyone else" so really refreshing to hear you use Fimo etc.

One day you could consider doing a youtube on your sculpting at work (pretty please…)

What marvellous responses, to what must have seemed a very amateurish question. I have massive new respect for the geniuses who produce such figures.

Shame about the War games Fairy and the crying kittens…but I did suspect as much.

Many thanks. Some great links here.

Each designer uses what suits their style best.
How people manage to make the wonderful they stuff they do using Green stuff amazes me, cant use it for the life of me for the main part of the work, its like using chewing gum lol
As for Fimo Mr Barton I'm just amazed with an additional 'what the ell' added for good measure. Cant conceive of getting anywhere near that quality of work with Fimo! Stunning!
The low temp silicone moulds are brill by the way.
I'm a hardened Milliput man myself ( not a good work to use really……..)with various other compounds occasionally.
Tried all the 'new' types but never found them an improvement.
Horses for courses as they say.
L
ps Working on a source of crying kittens………….

Mr Barton

I am interested in what line of sculpey you use. My friends use it to model figureheads and decorations on ships, and I am practicing. They use super sculpey or super sculpey firm because it holds detail. However it is brittle.

Your figures have amazing detail, do you get that with super sculpey even at the risk of damage with handling for a mold?

For me baking is an art. Too long and it's like burning cookies.

Here is a link that describes model ship use

PDF link

I actually use Fimo in preference to Sculpey for the small figures . It's much stronger when fired, and flexible, and tends not to scorch in the oven in the way that Sculpey does.
The crucial thing with all polymer clays is to cook them at the correct temperature, which means checking the thermostat on your oven . If you are getting burnt cookies it's because you are overcooking them ! If they are brittle like cheese, you are undercooking them.
125C in the centre of the oven.
For a 20mm figure , if the oven is already hot . 3mins is quite enough, but there is no harm in leaving it there SO LONG AS THE TEMPERATURE IS CONSTANT .
Get it just right, and you can fire each stage of a figure as many times as you need, without it ever charring. Some of mine have been in the oven thirty or forty times , and are still flexible.
Sculpey is better than Fimo for larger objects , especially where you might want to sand and polish the surface after firing.

Thanks for the information. I may get Fimo, at least for smaller items like friezes.

My earlier response thanking everyone has disappeared into the ether along with so much from the last few days.

Let me just say again thanks to all……….fascinating stuff. I have so much more respect for these little metal folk now……