"Sherman observation post - external details" Topic

I want to build an op Sherman. I know they had the main gun replaced with a wooden dummy. Did they also lose the co-ax? What other external differences (other than markings) are there that could be modelled?

Thanks

apart from more aerials little really

The majority of Sherman OPs did not lose their main armament. In the British, Canadian and Polish armies, generally only the Battery (and higher) Commanders received the dummy-gunned versions. The two Troop Commanders in each battery, who did most of the FOO work, had armed OP tanks with an extra radio – the same as the OP tanks found in Armoured Regiment HQs.

In the case of the wooden-barrelled versions, they invariably had a canvas muzzle cover to conceal the fact that the gun was a fake. Sherman OPs didn't have co-ax MGs – only hull MG and perhaps an AAMG.

Here's a nice view of a Cromwell OP from 1st Polish Armoured Division HQ (General Maczek's personal tank). Note the nicely-modelled fake muzzle-brake. The 'co-ax' appears to be a live MG:

The front turret-hatch halves on these higher-level Cromwell OPs also often had map-boards fitted.

Here's the same tank:

Here's a more typical Cromwell OP (KO'd), which belonged to one of the Troop Commanders in the same battery as the Sherman OP pictured above:

And here's the other Troop Commander's Cromwell OP. Note that these two Cromwells both have live guns:

Here's a Sherman OP belonging to the Royal Marines Armoured Support Group. Note the live weapons:

Here's a Sherman OP belonging to an AGRA regiment:

This appears to be the same tank – certainly the same unit and the stowage looks the same:

Great Pictures Jemima!

The honours belong to Google.

Cheers. It's going to be a op tank for polish 1st armoured but for flames of war so no main gun under the rules. Might do the canvas cover will help make it stand out.

Tim,

It's usually simply a case of looking for the 'ole in the muzzle. I've never seen one with the muzzle drilled out – they were usually camouflaged with a muzzle-cover or (rarely in the case of Shermans) with a fake muzzle-brake, like that Cromwell OP (even though Shermans didn't normally have muzzle-brakes).

Those with fake guns also lack the co-ax, as there's simply nowhere to mount it once the gun mounting has been removed. I don't know how it worked with Cromwells, as they seem to retain their co-ax.

I had a long series of correspondence with Patrick Delaforce about this 'back in the day'; he had been a FOO with 13th RHA in 11th Armoured Division.

There are also a number of accounts (including Delaforce's own) describing the use of 75mm guns by FOOs. E.g. the FOO's 'joining in' a shoot with their own 75, FOOs marking targets with the 75 and on one memorable occasion, a FOO's Sherman duelling with a 21st PD PzIV around a street corner in Herouville (the tank support for the Lincolnshires had failed to show up, so the FOO found himself providing the artillery AND armour support!).

Markings would be for the artillery unit they are attached to blue and red if I remember right.

See sheet from Dom's decals.
link

Indeed!

The battery tactical markings are explained here: link

As a general rule of thumb, a Battery Commander would probably have a dummy gun and the two Troop Commanders in the battery would probably have 75mm. The 'X' on the first Sherman above indicates a battery commander. It's difficult to see, but the low-right corner of the (blue) square is a lighter shad (red), indicating the regiment's 2nd battery.

The two Cromwell OPs would have the same coloured square (blue with red bottom-right corner) with 'RC' and 'RD' for the commanders of C & D Troops. The 'RD' one is clearly visible.

The second Sherman OP photo appears to be a tank belonging to a Gun Position Officer of that regiment's 'D' Troop ('GD'). The way it roughly worked was that the GPO would stay with the Sextons/Priests, while the Battery Commander deployed forward to the HQ of the unit they were supporting. The Troop Commanders would then deploy further forward as FOOs. GPO tanks were frequently dummy-gunned jobs, though this one seems to be armed.