| LeavingTMP | 01 Mar 2016 3:31 p.m. PST |
I want to build an op Sherman. I know they had the main gun replaced with a wooden dummy. Did they also lose the co-ax? What other external differences (other than markings) are there that could be modelled? Thanks |
| shaun from s and s models | 02 Mar 2016 3:17 a.m. PST |
apart from more aerials little really |
| Jemima Fawr | 02 Mar 2016 5:20 a.m. PST |
The majority of Sherman OPs did not lose their main armament. In the British, Canadian and Polish armies, generally only the Battery (and higher) Commanders received the dummy-gunned versions. The two Troop Commanders in each battery, who did most of the FOO work, had armed OP tanks with an extra radio – the same as the OP tanks found in Armoured Regiment HQs. In the case of the wooden-barrelled versions, they invariably had a canvas muzzle cover to conceal the fact that the gun was a fake. Sherman OPs didn't have co-ax MGs – only hull MG and perhaps an AAMG.
Here's a nice view of a Cromwell OP from 1st Polish Armoured Division HQ (General Maczek's personal tank). Note the nicely-modelled fake muzzle-brake. The 'co-ax' appears to be a live MG:
The front turret-hatch halves on these higher-level Cromwell OPs also often had map-boards fitted. |
| Jemima Fawr | 02 Mar 2016 5:30 a.m. PST |
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| Jemima Fawr | 02 Mar 2016 5:33 a.m. PST |
Here's a more typical Cromwell OP (KO'd), which belonged to one of the Troop Commanders in the same battery as the Sherman OP pictured above:
And here's the other Troop Commander's Cromwell OP. Note that these two Cromwells both have live guns:
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| Jemima Fawr | 02 Mar 2016 5:34 a.m. PST |
Here's a Sherman OP belonging to the Royal Marines Armoured Support Group. Note the live weapons:
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| Jemima Fawr | 02 Mar 2016 5:37 a.m. PST |
Here's a Sherman OP belonging to an AGRA regiment:
This appears to be the same tank – certainly the same unit and the stowage looks the same:
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| wrgmr1 | 02 Mar 2016 8:57 a.m. PST |
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| Jemima Fawr | 02 Mar 2016 11:27 a.m. PST |
The honours belong to Google. |
| LeavingTMP | 02 Mar 2016 11:30 a.m. PST |
Cheers. It's going to be a op tank for polish 1st armoured but for flames of war so no main gun under the rules. Might do the canvas cover will help make it stand out. |
| Jemima Fawr | 03 Mar 2016 3:30 a.m. PST |
Tim, It's usually simply a case of looking for the 'ole in the muzzle. I've never seen one with the muzzle drilled out – they were usually camouflaged with a muzzle-cover or (rarely in the case of Shermans) with a fake muzzle-brake, like that Cromwell OP (even though Shermans didn't normally have muzzle-brakes). Those with fake guns also lack the co-ax, as there's simply nowhere to mount it once the gun mounting has been removed. I don't know how it worked with Cromwells, as they seem to retain their co-ax. I had a long series of correspondence with Patrick Delaforce about this 'back in the day'; he had been a FOO with 13th RHA in 11th Armoured Division. There are also a number of accounts (including Delaforce's own) describing the use of 75mm guns by FOOs. E.g. the FOO's 'joining in' a shoot with their own 75, FOOs marking targets with the 75 and on one memorable occasion, a FOO's Sherman duelling with a 21st PD PzIV around a street corner in Herouville (the tank support for the Lincolnshires had failed to show up, so the FOO found himself providing the artillery AND armour support!). |
| wrgmr1 | 03 Mar 2016 9:08 a.m. PST |
Markings would be for the artillery unit they are attached to blue and red if I remember right. See sheet from Dom's decals.
link |
| Jemima Fawr | 03 Mar 2016 9:27 a.m. PST |
Indeed! The battery tactical markings are explained here: link As a general rule of thumb, a Battery Commander would probably have a dummy gun and the two Troop Commanders in the battery would probably have 75mm. The 'X' on the first Sherman above indicates a battery commander. It's difficult to see, but the low-right corner of the (blue) square is a lighter shad (red), indicating the regiment's 2nd battery. The two Cromwell OPs would have the same coloured square (blue with red bottom-right corner) with 'RC' and 'RD' for the commanders of C & D Troops. The 'RD' one is clearly visible. The second Sherman OP photo appears to be a tank belonging to a Gun Position Officer of that regiment's 'D' Troop ('GD'). The way it roughly worked was that the GPO would stay with the Sextons/Priests, while the Battery Commander deployed forward to the HQ of the unit they were supporting. The Troop Commanders would then deploy further forward as FOOs. GPO tanks were frequently dummy-gunned jobs, though this one seems to be armed. |
