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"Modern UK civil war" Topic


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7,280 hits since 19 Feb 2016
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Ostrowski19 Feb 2016 3:13 p.m. PST

Thinking of gaming a UK civil war post Eu referendum. Patriots vs EU collaborationists. Good guys vs bad guys sort of vibe. Which way would the army go? Would the scots behave etc?

foxweasel Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 3:33 p.m. PST

The Army would do as it's told, by the government of the day. We didn't have a standing army during the last civil war, which made it mostly a war between amateurs advised by people with European war experience. Any future civil war would be more like a N Ireland scenario, going into open conflict against the armed forces would be suicide.
Anyway, we're British and just not programmed for that continental style nonsense.

Toronto48 Inactive Member19 Feb 2016 3:37 p.m. PST

Based upon recent visits to the UK I wolud suggest that a more likely Civil War would be between Greater London and the rest of the country.

foxweasel Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 3:41 p.m. PST

You're quite right there Toronto, it has been suggested by some quite sensible high up people that London is rapidly becoming separated from the rest of us. I feel like a foreigner in my own capital when I go there.

Ostrowski19 Feb 2016 3:43 p.m. PST

Thanks for comments. Discounting army, looks like a freedom fighter vs establishment EU elites scenario. Scots will probably 'toe the line' as they barely have a pot to p*ss in etc.

Ostrowski19 Feb 2016 3:50 p.m. PST

Yes, London has been lost forever. Where next?

Dave Arrowsmith Inactive Member19 Feb 2016 4:41 p.m. PST

Luton, Leicester, Bradford, Blackburn and probably Derby.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 4:52 p.m. PST

To make it more interesting to game, throw in an economic meltdown (the socialists spent all the money / the capitalists crashed the economy), the army being cut to the bone, soldiers deserting or setting up their own "protective" zones, right-wing militia start patrolling, old-school trots resurrect "squaddism" and you have tons of man to man skirmishing going on.

zippyfusenet Inactive Member19 Feb 2016 5:01 p.m. PST

What are the militias armed with? Cricket bats?

hagenthedwarf Inactive Member19 Feb 2016 5:10 p.m. PST

You're quite right there Toronto, it has been suggested by some quite sensible high up people that London is rapidly becoming separated from the rest of us. I feel like a foreigner in my own capital when I go there.

I live in London and feel like a foreigner in my own city. The Westminster village has lost the plot and the panic over the Scottish vote-swing towards independence (and the growth of UKIP) finally made the politicians realise they had lost touch with the public. It remains to be seen if they can reconnect.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 5:17 p.m. PST

Zippy – Sticks, cudgels, homemade bombs, hunting rifles and whatever they can scavenge.

As the campaign moves on, roll to loot rifles and military gear in the general chaos.

gamershs19 Feb 2016 5:32 p.m. PST

Gun running from the US or maybe from Mexico. Also, don't forget that the Sten SMG was made in Bicycle shops during WW2. I wonder what the school machine shops could turn out today or maybe 3D printers in the computer shop.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 6:04 p.m. PST

If there's a war going on, people will find a way to get guns.

Bet there's still some IRA stuff sitting in storage somewhere.

link

This site mentions 4 million privately owned firearms estimated in the UK. Enough for a few squads I reckon :)

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 7:04 p.m. PST

What will they be armed with ?

By coincidence I offer this news story : link

Which makes this film clip seem suddenly rather credible : YouTube link

Terrement Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 7:38 p.m. PST

DELETED

Personal logo Jeff Ewing Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 7:57 p.m. PST

I'd like to see figures armed with "Millwall Bricks."

capt jimmi Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 9:22 p.m. PST

A cricket bat is an excellent weapon ..don't pass it up if you have the choice.

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP19 Feb 2016 10:14 p.m. PST

If the Croydon High School girls were anything to go by then hockey sticks make a fearsome close quarter weapon.

London disconnected from the rest of the country? Think Panem…..

MH Dee19 Feb 2016 11:33 p.m. PST

Should point out that being anti EU/for Brexit has cross party support, far left or far right – so it isn't *really* a conflict. I want to remain in the EU myself, personally x It'd be pretty great. I've defined myself as European first, and Irish second

MH Dee19 Feb 2016 11:36 p.m. PST

'Be sure to throw in all of the migrants'


Yep, just like you lot in the early Americas?

Martin Rapier20 Feb 2016 12:02 a.m. PST

I can see this thread going south very quickly.

As noted above, a rebellion of the rest of the UK against the fat cats, profiteers and asset strippers in London is far more likely than a strange alliance of swivel eyed little Englanders, grumpy trade unionists who want to keep wages high and people who don't like foreigners vs the EU.

foxweasel Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2016 4:03 a.m. PST

Just remembered, under fire miniatures are bringing out a range of near future Scots rebellion figures link

Oh Bugger Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 4:11 a.m. PST

In the 90s loads of former Soviet block armament came into Britain I imagine its still floating about with various underworld armourers.

Scotland absorbes the northern counties as a humanitarian gesture thus solving its demographic problem. New Brigantia has to be bought off.

As to the loyalty of the Army Curragh Mutiny comes to mind.

The migrants are not a block different groups would have their own perspective. Southall might set up the Khalsa. On to Potters Bar! The Nigerians could establish a Christian Federation in south east London.

London is pretty much owned by Russians, Chinese and Middle Eastern investors would they hire mercs to protect their capital assets? Would the Mayor of London send in the Met?

But the UK is no where near a civil war situation. It could be a fun campaign game though.

Winter79 Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 4:37 a.m. PST

Glasgow becomes a self proclaimed islamic state under control of Tali Bani Weegies.

Cheers
Mark

Visceral Impact Studios20 Feb 2016 4:40 a.m. PST

Can't happen. They're much too polite. :-)

Winter79 Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 4:44 a.m. PST

What are the militias armed with? Cricket bats?

We allow 'open carry' without permits on playing fields and village greens.

Returning to topic, I think it would be harder today to organise a mass resistance against the establishment than say 70's/80's due in part to digital communications and increased government surveillance. The police are far better armed, there's greater though not perfect coordination between intelligence services.

MajorB20 Feb 2016 6:00 a.m. PST

I think another American Civil War is far more likely than any internecine strife within the UK.

Gaz004520 Feb 2016 6:03 a.m. PST

Pitch it at a Nationalist break up of the UK after a Brexit with Scotland and Wales going their own ways with EU support and 'volunteer' forces……Loyalist/UK forces attempt to restore/maintain the balance…………

Goonfighter Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 7:14 a.m. PST

For me, I'd stick with the WInter of 79 period but there are eneough good ultra modern figures to let you run black ops and deniable missions against any number of factions in defence of a (dis)United Kingdom. I think that in reality the establishment response would be harder and faster against any kind of rebellious faction than we might think and given current general fear over terrorism, far more readily accepted by the vast majority who just want to get on watching I'm a pointless celebrity. So, don't spend too much time on a backstory, just have the SAS storming the HQ of the U.K. Secessionist Front.

Wales can bring England to its knees by turning off the water supply and withholding episodes of Dr Who and Casualty. So no action on a burning Welsh border I'm afraid.

GNREP8 Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 7:20 a.m. PST

i'd slightly object to the DM type characterisation that those of us who are pro Europe are collaborators and though in jest here, in the DM they mean it and as someone who has served the Crown i find that quite offensive and sadly redolent of the kind of thing the right in Spain spewed out pre the Civil War.

GNREP8 Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 7:22 a.m. PST

I feel like a foreigner in my own capital when I go there.
---------------
yes there are lots of English in Cardiff

foxweasel Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2016 7:22 a.m. PST

If you withhold episodes of Casualty you won't have to worry about the Army, my wife would be round to terminate with extreme prejudice!

GNREP8 Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 7:30 a.m. PST

In the 90s loads of former Soviet block armament came into Britain I imagine its still floating about with various underworld armourers.
------------------------
not that much – otherwise converted blank firers wouldnt be so popular

zippyfusenet Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 7:39 a.m. PST

A cricket bat is an excellent weapon ..don't pass it up if you have the choice.

Oh, I agree. A wooden warclub (or a handy stick of firewood) has been part of the basic personal panoply since the ice ages. I keep a couple of baseball bats handy as part of my home-defense arsenal. But roving militia mobs, armed with clubs and knives seem so…primitive for a first-world state like the UK. They wouldn't stand up to armed police.

While I'm sure British gun-runners are up to supplying their local drug gangs and the occasional armed robber, I doubt they could properly outfit a full platoon of militia.

GNREP8 Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 8:04 a.m. PST

I'm sure British gun-runners are up to supplying their local drug gangs and the occasional armed robber
------------------------
i think to some degree they struggle even to do that – various of the armourers recently put away were mainly reactivating deactivated weapons and blank firers. Its interesting that in terms of arrests when drugs gangs etc are lifted at point of handover its very rare to find firearms, which is counter intuitive to what people would expect from the movies – not to say that there might not be some armed minders who melt away when they see various unmarked and marked cars full of people in fleeces move in, but nonetheless thankfully rare

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 8:12 a.m. PST

Most likely a North-South conflict than anything else. Very, very generalised – the South Tory/service industry base, the North Labour/industrial based, Scotland Scottish Nationalist. So Scotland would probably side with the North, Northern Ireland would probably side with Scotland, Wales probably also Northern. Outlying areas such as Devon/Cornwall haven't a clue, but would be best for campaign purposes to have them also side with the North.

Goonfighter Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 8:13 a.m. PST

I say, GN, are you criticising the Daily Mail? How dare you. There's a queue to do that, please wait your turn!

GNREP8 Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 11:58 a.m. PST

Goonfighter – the DM is the most overpriced kindling for a fire you can get. Not fit even to be used as material for a pooper scooper

cwlinsj Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 12:28 p.m. PST

The Irish failed in their rebellion 100 years ago because they had no supplies of ammo. So even though they did capture stores of military rifles to complement their supplies of shotguns, lack of ammo shut the rebellion down. Even the insurgent fighting afterwards was limited as each fighter was handed only 30 bullets per action.

I think any fight in modern UK would be limited by this same problem. No established source of ammunition to feed those imaginary guns.

Odd lots of pistols, sporting shotguns, hunting rifles and the rare military rifle will not do a thing against modern trained forces in body armor, automatic weapons and armored vehicles.

If you want to game something, game a fight against continental forces bent on forcing the UK back into the EU.

Goonfighter Inactive Member20 Feb 2016 1:07 p.m. PST

GN – how would you tell it from the stuff your're scoopimg?

Well, yes, a long hard look at the logistics and reality will scupper a lot of things, this included but you can always simply ignore that and make it all up, this is all about having a good game.

As for the EU, the ACW happened when states tried to secede from the Union but let's not go there eh?

Under Fire Miniatures22 Feb 2016 6:26 a.m. PST

Hi Guys. Just to let you know, my next two commissiond will be used to finish off my 28mm West Germans and 20mm SADF and Angolans. More urban and countryside militia will be added towards the end of the year.

Reactionary Inactive Member22 Feb 2016 8:33 a.m. PST

Ah " that" DM; I thought GNREP8 had a downer on Games Masters. . .

Legion 422 Feb 2016 4:33 p.m. PST

Wow !! Didn't realize there was that much discontent and factions in the UK. huh? Besides the traditional Brits, Irish, Scots and Welsh ! evil grin

SouthernPhantom22 Feb 2016 4:41 p.m. PST

Agreed, MajorB. Not getting into politics, we haven't been this divided since 1860. All it will take is a spark.

Jemima Fawr Inactive Member23 Feb 2016 12:20 a.m. PST

'All it take is a spark'?

What for? To light your spliff? Are you seriously suggesting that the UK is on the verge of civil war?!

Step away from the meds.

Supercilius Maximus23 Feb 2016 3:15 a.m. PST

Or conversely, start taking them?

As for being "this divided" – forget 1860; try 1914, 1926, or the mid-1970s.

kabrank23 Feb 2016 6:11 a.m. PST

Maybe SouthernPhantom is referring to USA

SouthernPhantom23 Feb 2016 7:51 a.m. PST

I was referring to the US, to be clear.

wyeayeman23 Feb 2016 8:32 a.m. PST

'Luton, Leicester, Bradford, Blackburn and probably Derby.'
Fancy some time in the Doghouse do you Dave Arrowsmith?

Dave Arrowsmith Inactive Member23 Feb 2016 2:01 p.m. PST

For what, a chap asked for an opinion on what towns/cities may have a Muslim majority in the near future, I suggested which I thought may have. I did not say that this was a bad thing, for all you know I may be counting the days until Sharia law is introduced across the entire country, and as a added bonus Newcastle is given to Scotland, not that I have anything against the Scots of course.

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