"Favourite Doc Savage/The Shadow Stories?" Topic

Gentlemen,

I'm having great fun reading "The Thousand Headed Man" right now and am interested in doing some more reading about the man of mystery and his gang. Do any of you have particular favourites in the series? I'm aware they are pretty formulaic and we're hardly discussing immortal literature here--so one choice may be as good as another--but the series is so huge a little guidance would be very helpful. The editions I'm using are these:

budsartbooks.com/search.cfm

I have volumes 1 and 20, with 17 on the way. Any other special choices? A sentence or two as to why would be much appreciated. The kind I especially like are those in remote locales, with lost temples and that sort of thing, if that focuses things a little.

I have the same question regarding The Shadow stories. Bud Plant carries them in a similar looking series:

budsartbooks.com/search.cfm

Any recommendations in terms of specific stories (plus why) would be much appreciated!

Thank you!

EDIT: It looks like the links above only lead to the main page of Bud Plant: just do a name search for the above two heroes and it will take you to the right place. Sorry!

for Doc Savage: "The Fortress of Solitude" which introduces John Sunlight who is arguably Doc's greatest villain, again arguably. He comes back in "The Devil Genghis."

I read up to about the first 89 Doc Savage books before I went off to college. "The Fortress of Solitude" was great but I would also add the "World's Fair Goblin" and "The Sargasso Ogre" which were memorable if not for their great covers. The addition of Pat Savage as a female hero was somewhat ahead of it's time for that genre.

Somehow Doc performing brain surgery on all his perps to remove their "badness" doesn't sound so shocking an idea any more.

Great material for a jillion pulp RPG's.

I would also recommend "The Avenger"….who having suffered a facial injury could moosh his face around and disguise himself as almost anyone.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. Terrement, it really isn't surprising that after many years the stories have blurred; again, we're not dealing with great literature, just good old-fashioned, clenched teeth action with highly implausible heroes and dastardly villains who pay for their crimes the way one should! GK Chesterton once wrote a wonderful little essay "In Praise of Penny Dreadfuls" (the Victorian/Edwardian equivalent to pulp) that well describes the fun to be had in such, erm, literary works. It's worth reading if one can find it.

The link to the covers was great fun to look at, though I must admit I don't care for that artist's (Bama's) representation of Doc--I far prefer the alternate covers one can see in the Bud Plant catalogue (I think they are the older covers, though stand open to correction on this).

Red, "Fortress" is my next read, so I'll be getting to know Mr. Sunlight shortly. Thanks for the tip!

J, your leads are most helpful, thank you. I've got the "Goblin" coming already, and "Ogre" might have to be a future purchase. In reading my first story, I have to agree that there are gaming ideas galore in it--some really good skirmishes could be done with this story alone. Great fun!

I appreciate all your input. Many thanks again.

My favorite is Quest for the Spider. In it, a Georgia lumber baron and his daughter are being threatened. So what does Doc do? Put them in protective custody? Stash them in Doc's NY HQ? Not a bit of it: he gives them grenades and submachine guns to defend themselves. The whole story is filled with such shenanigans!

The great thing about Doc stories are the outlandishly entertaining villains, exotic locations, his 5 amazing assistants, bullets flying everywhere, plot twists, fast paced action, mysterious masterminds, train/plane/automobile chases, crazy pulp gadgets, "how-done-it" reveals and of course hot femme fatales.

Before the advent of pulp RPGs we hacked "Top Secret" as our go to set of mechanics to fit the bill. Good times…..many, many years ago…..

Have you considered listening to the Shadow's radio show. It's a very different character, but good fun all the same. You can get hundreds of the old episodes online for free. (Green Hornet and Lone Ranger and Gunsmoke and all sorts of goodness too)

As for the old pulp mags, I quite liked Voodoo Trail, though I'm more of a Spider man myself. Spider vs the Empire State, all the ones where he fights the Fly, that's good reading right there. I guess the Spider's slightly more straightforward and violent style better fits the more modern part of the palette.

Have you tried any new pulp, by chance? Barry Reese's stuff, the Moonstone Green Hornet anthologies, there's some quality diversion out there.

Excellent tips, Acres, thank you! I've been tempted to listen to the Shadow radio broadcasts for some time. Interesting leads on the modern stuff--just curious, are they set in the 20s/30s or in modern times? (I much prefer the style of the bygone era, miserable though it may have been to actually live through!).

One of my favorite "The Shadow" novels is "Gray Fist" where the bad guys find his hidden sanctuary. *Lots* of slam bang action. Much more than is usual for a Shadow novel.

The only "Doc" novel that I enjoyed was the first one titled "Man of Bronze". Lots of action in that one. In later novels, when his crew started using "mercy guns" that didn't kill, I lost interest.

I'm with 3Acres on "The Spider" novels. He's one of the most popular characters for original pulp magazine collectors. The novels weren't reprinted in such numbers as Doc and Shadow back in the 1960's and 70's, but they are now and are very much worth reading.

Daryl

"The Shadow" radio programs are absolutely *nothing* like the pulp novels. They are fairly interesting, but you will probably lose interest after listening to a few of them and you realize that they are very formulaic. Lamont Cranston is a wealthy "man about town" with his "lovely companion" (girlfriend) Margo Lane. About half way into the program he "clouds men's minds" (becomes invisible) to further the plot. Then, at the end of the program, he becomes invisible again to confront the bad guy(s). I don't recall any program where he became invisible either more, or less, than twice. One of the main plot devices is that there is something supernatural going on, but by the end we find out that it's really just a clever villain, or a nut case.

I recommend that you listen to the earliest shows, where Orson Welles played Lamont Cranston. I found that his voice and acting made the show much more interesting.

Daryl,

As already mentioned I always liked The Sargasso Ogre. I don't remember much right now, other than the cover, but it makes me want to get it out and reread it.

The other two stories I always remember enjoying were The Czar of Fear, which it looks like you have, and Quest of Qui.

I have just started reading The Shadow's stories. I had heard The Shadow radio program and have found the stories to be more interesting than the radio shows.

I also enjoy The Spider, Jim Anthony, Operator 5, and a host of other pulps. There are a lot out there in both physical reprints and e-books.

I also read the new Wild Adventures of Doc Savage. I know that opinions are mixed on them but I like them.

You know, I find the "mercy guns" pretty stupid myself. I'd far rather he blow a couple away so they could die like good minions, but I suppose that wouldn't be Doc Savage. That and his five companions always needing to be rescued gets a little old after awhile.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm not more of a Spider man myself.

Pvi, thanks for the tip on Quest of Qui!

Quite honestly, I find Doc Savage's whole "brain-wash 'em good" schtick kinda scary and simultaneously funny. How the times have changed.

With regards to the "new pulp", the time frame really depends on what you're buying. Most of the stuff I've read is set in the 1930s, Moonstone's Green Hornet anthologies are set in the '60s (in the vein of the TV show), new Western stuff is of course in the 19th century, but the '30s are more popular overall. There are a reasonable amount of Doc Savage pastiches out there, but a quick google search for "new pulp" will bring you into a whole new world of page-turners.

Oh, and if you're gonna read a reasonable amount of Shadow stories, ya gotta get at least one of the Chinatown stories in your collection, that's real staple material right there.

Guys

Even though my "handle" here is The Shadow, I actually prefer The Spider novels by Emil C. Teppermsn. Grant Stockbridge was actually a "house" name for several different authors, one of which was Tepperman. He also wrote several Operator #5 novels as Curtis Steele, and "The Suicide Squad" for the Ace G-Man Stories pulp magazine using his real name. His ultra violent writing style is evident in all three pulps, which probably why fans of The Spider are usually fans of Operator #5 as well.

3Acre

"Gray Fist", the story that I recommended, is a Chinatown story.

I like Chinatown settings, so "Gray Fist" sounds perfect. Once I heard about a collection of such stories called something like "It's Raining Corpses In Chinatown"--when I have more time I'll need to look it up.

The Spider will be my next area of study (I use that term loosely), so if you have any more recommendations in terms of individual stories, I'd be most appreciative! Thank you again for the feedback.