"How to represent conscript or veteran units?" Topic

I am putting together a 6mm French force and I would like advice on how to go about showing higher/lower quality (battalion-level) units that are all essentially "Line" type. I'll be playing Penninsular theatre games, at least to start with, so I don't want a bunch of Guard Grenadiers running around…

I was thinking that I could show higher quality/veteran units by using line Grendier (in bearskin) figs for one (of the 4) bases in the unit. Lower quality units could have everyone in shako.

Alternatively, I could paint the conscripts with a rag-tag assortment of coloured pants, and paint the higher quality units in whites (although realistically, veterans might be more likely to be in mixed 'field' uniforms than conscripts…).

Finally, I could paint some units as French allies to distinguish them from regular Line regiments – those could be higher or lower quality on a case-by-case basis. If I did that, which allied regiments actually saw action against Anglo-Portuguese forces in battle?

Basically, I want a relatively simple, yet fairly historically accurate, system to show distinctions in French Line regiment troop grades.

Maybe such a thing doesn't exist for 6mm figs!

Just put a coloured dot or small label on the base.

What about greatcoats/not greatcoats?

Fewer figures in Veteran Units? More figures, brightest, most correct uniforms on Raw Units?

Mollinary

^^^ Conscripts in great coats.

Battle damaged flag?

All due respect to MajorB,but any of OP'S ideas sound better to me--I avoid markers/labels like the plague.
I'm having similar problems with my 10mm WSS "Old Regiments" French. Thought about giving the "Vieux Cinque" King's Colors (white) to distinguish them, but then, they had more than one battalion. Still thinking…
I was using little beads as Shako "kill" markers,but I'll be ordering some Pendraken generic casualty figures. They do dead horses too,very handy!

You might consider some terrain differentiation. I used different numbers and colors of aquarium stones on my Brother Against Brother squads. Of course,they were single-based 25mm,but some of the stones are really tiny,small enough to possibly fit in,scale-wise,with 6mm. Or maybe very (!) small grass tufts? You'd have to look close,of course,but to my mind,that beats having your unit followed around by a giant billboard.

Just a matter of taste,really,and yours is what matters most.

Lable the underside of the base with unit name.
And list the regiments quality on a paper. Most of the time you'll be able to remember who's who. But if the action gets chaotic. Simply lift up the unit and check.

Small pebbles glued to the back of each base.
Conscripts have 1, line 2.

These are all feasible and helpful suggestions – thanks everyone!

(Other suggestions are still welcome, too, of course.)

If the figures can be separated, perhaps conscripts could be spaced more unevenly to represent poor drill?

Or veterans closer to the front edge of the unit base, conscripts closer to the back edge?

A sergeant with a spontoon in the back keeping the conscripts from running?

I do markers so that I can vary the proportions by what I need, not by what I've painted. YMMV.

I, generally go for labels under the base and a list in my hand with the unit and experience levels clearly marked and any other special rules.

jon

Instead of giving the battalions the correct fanion for its number, allocate them by quality. So best quality get eagles, then white, red, blue fanions. May not be accurate for your time of the peninsula but a lot less permanent than using a particular style of dress.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to have the battalions as different quality anyway.

OTOH, we used roster sheets to record casualties so that indicated quality. Units were labelled under the bases.

For me, conscripts get greatcoats and elite have their officer mounted.

,that beats having your unit followed around by a giant billboard.

I wasn't thinking of big labels. A label under the base is fine. A coloured dot about 2-3mm across would be plenty big enough, without having to squint to see what colour aquarium gravel is on the base on how many tiny grass tufts …

Tony S, that is right simple. Next time I paint up a new army…

Flock the bases differently.

their level is for you to know and your opponent to find out. On the battlefield the enemy will not know the level of the enemy until first contact.
So why should you let your opponent know earlier. He will manuever his troops to take advantage of the weak point in your lines.
Note it on a piece of paper or better 3 x 5 card.

Hello Pattus!

Pretty much what most of them are saying. Simply paint up two or more different styles of French line units. Some in full dress with cords, others in greatcoats, and others say with shako covers and maybe even a forth with all of the above mixed, hey even a fifth with mounted officers, some even just stick a figure or two at the back of their formations that look like line closers. Pretty much anything simple that does not look out of place but is easy to tell the difference. What this does is give you options to change out who is who from game to game. In one game the full dress guys might be your better troops. In the next game the guys with greatcoats might be the better ones. You can even change it from Division to Division, brigade to brigade, etc. That way only the player knows who is who and the other side is pretty much in the dark for most of the game. We have been doing that for years and it really messes them up when they think they know what is going on only to find that the next Division is different.

Best regards,

Glenn

If you're doing then Peninsula, one possible variant on greatcoats is white linen dusters used to protect the uniform in summer. In 6mm I doubt anyone would notice if it wasn't quite cut right.

For French allies you have…

Spanish troops of King Joseph.

Nassau
Baden
Frankfurt were part of a German brigade.

Then Poland was represented by troops of the Vistula legion.

Naples, Hesse-Darmstadt, Kingdom of Italy and Holland all had troops in Spain.

Most of the above can be painted using regular French troops. The 4th Baden initially may have worn their distinctive helmet … I think Wurttemburger helmets or Bavarians will work as them.

Vistula Infantry can be recognised by a distinctive uniform which I think can be painted up using Baccus "Warsaw" troops.

Nassau will look like French troops all in green. The only difficulty being the grenadiers in Colpacks. Adler I think do them. Nassau chassuers look like French chassuers.

Naples, Kingdom of Italy, Frankfurt, Hesse and Nosephs royal troops can all be done using French figures.

The Dutch had a distinctive head gear…. Possibly no one does them in 6mm.

For showing conscripts. I would favour either giving them greatcoats.. Seems like the easiest way to do it.

I generally don't pre mark units quality when I paint them, unless there are obvious uniform differences.

I either remember which is which in a game, use base markers, or paint on uniform distinctions for particular units e.g. shako covers, brown bedrolls or whatever. Then I can just say, for this game, those units with shako covers are veterans, or whatever.

For higher level games when you are manoeuvring brigades and divisions, numbers of flags works well. One, two or three flag bearers per formation, for example.

I don't generally bother to,paint up units in different styles etc to distinguish morale classes as I normally play scenario games, where proportions of elites/ veterans etc will be different from game to game, so would normally just have a paper record.
Major B's coloured dots are unobtrusive- I use to use a three dot combination to identify my 6mm ACW units at one stage- first dot for division, second dot for brigade and third dot for regiment- that system could be used, together with a paper list, to quickly identify class on the table, without opponent knowing.

These are all great suggestions!

I decided to go with mixing troops in greatcoats into some of the stands. Since the basic units are 4 bases, I'll be able to vary the proportions of stands with/without greatcoats without it being too visually obtrusive.

I appreciate the suggestions regarding leaving the opponent in the dark about unit identities/statuses. I'll be using rosters, so the significance of greatcoats in the ranks can vary between games – sometimes it means something, and sometimes not!

I have already experienced the fun of not knowing exact unit statuses – in a game of Blucher we used figure stands instead of the cards and a roster to keep track of damage. I really enjoyed not knowing exactly who was who in the enemy army, or exactly how close a unit was to breaking once the lead started flying. It made me hedge some bets on my tactics, compared to having full knowledge of the situation.

I think a degree of imperfect knowledge on the part of players is actually crucial for getting the feel of the period – none of the leaders at the time had the benefit of accurate real-time intelligence (heck, even now real-time intel is less than perfect) and some of the tactics wouldn't have been as effective if the enemy had full knowledge of what was where.

How best to achieve imperfect intelligence in a game is matter for another post, but using basing that allows 'fuzziness' is a great start!

Thanks again for all of the ideas!

I think I would put one figure in a bicorne hat to represent old or veteran units and the others without. I realize this would spoil the appearance for for some, but it would make units easily distinguishable.

I paint the bottom of the stand in white and write the unit identification there. The command stand has the most detail. For Napoleonics, every player has a index card with his table of organization and the unit's quality, skirmish capability and full and half strength number of figures listed. There are changes in the same unit between battles and campaigns. Also, there are so many types of units that most players are not sure of what to expect of every unit.

For ACW rules I use a modified rally 'round the Flag ruleset and the command stand has the Corp/brigade ID, the regiment ID, number of stands and the unit grade (elite, crack, veteran, green). Each other stand just has the unit ID. All stands that go into one storage box have a dab of color somewhere on the back end of the base of the stand. I use wounded figures to represent 1-3 casulties, and then remove a stand. The location of the lost stand is recorded with a "dead" figure, which populates the battlefield with markers, and you can see where the heavy fighting was.

ACW units usually shrunk in length of line of battle, more then just thinning out upon taking casulties. Napoleonic battalions usually retained their length but lost the third rank. Therefore for napoleonics I use green flocked pennies to keep track of casulties. (some have a "5" on them, in order to keep the pile small).

In both ACW & Napoleonics, I use figures of sheep or pigs to keep track of shaken morale or routed units.

I was planning on having conscripts in great coats with flags furled in its protective cover.

That's a nice, simple idea julianmizzi – it reduces the effort required to paint such troops too. Win, win!
One could also have an alternatice colour bearer/colour party with a flag fluttering in the breeze for when the unit gains combat experience and veteran status. I think I may well adopt this myself…

For my Wars of the Roses armies, the further to the right the colour is, the higher the quality, this may, of course, rankle with the Nappy purist, but makes for easy ID, plus, all your units can be any class, no need to paint distinctions on any of them.

Oh, and you be suprised how long it takes your opponent to cotton on! lol

John

I have found that using a combination of greatcoats/campaign dress/full dress and eagles/fanions I can represent quite a variety of different troop quality levels amongst my French troops.

You could use different pom-pom colours and musicians uniforms too.