| Ooh Rah | 13 Feb 2016 8:31 p.m. PST |
What is the correct terminology for the "pins" or "clips" on a French bicorn? An online shop (Empire Costume) refers to them as "torsades" but a Google search of that term on TMP finds nothing. The CGM figures I am painting show them on each side of the cockade. I'm painting them yellow like this picture, but got to wondering what they are called. Thanks!
Here is a link to Empire Costume where they are called "torsades" in the description. link |
| 21eRegt | 13 Feb 2016 9:03 p.m. PST |
It is not metal. My Google search says: NOUN 1.a decorative twisted braid, ribbon, or other strand used as trimming. The tape was secured by the button in the illustration. The Garde were orange, others I couldn't say or guess. |
| Ooh Rah | 13 Feb 2016 10:16 p.m. PST |
In the picture, the "tape" that is secured by the button and overlays the cockade does appear to be cloth, not metal just as you say. I read somewhere the bicorn was notorious for failing to keep it's shape in bad weather, so I was thinking maybe these four "things" on each side of the cockade were some kind of "pins" or "clips" intended to maintain the shape of the bicorn. Sad, but this will bug me until I know what they are called.  |
 enfant perdus  | 13 Feb 2016 10:46 p.m. PST |
In English, they're usually referred to as "ties". The bicorne is in reality a broad brimmed hat; drawing the ties taut pulls up the sides. |
| Ooh Rah | 13 Feb 2016 10:53 p.m. PST |
Ah, ties. Thanks! So they are like a cloth cord or string, and they are not metal pins or clips at all. Is that right? kind of like modern day cloth shoe laces? |
| enfant perdus | 13 Feb 2016 11:19 p.m. PST |
Correct, they were usually cord or cloth tape. |
| Ooh Rah | 13 Feb 2016 11:55 p.m. PST |
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| von Winterfeldt | 14 Feb 2016 12:45 a.m. PST |
yes – usually made of black cord, later under the Empire – also in colour |
| Widowson | 17 Feb 2016 1:33 p.m. PST |
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 deadhead | 17 Feb 2016 2:40 p.m. PST |
I was so sure they were metal clips. They look that way, it would work better…..I know the cords that hold the cockade are different, but, but, but, I was sure that those silver or brass lines were metal staples, basically. What a great forum this is to exchange such info. You have to be the sort to be bothered about such trivia. I am, though. Thanks. Great…(seriously). Now, I really must get out more! |
| SJDonovan | 17 Feb 2016 3:07 p.m. PST |
In Haythornthwaite and Fosten's Osprey "Napoleon's Line Infantry" there is a plate of a sergeant-major of the 4th Line Infantry carrying the eagle and he is shown with four tapes/laces on each side of the front of the bicorne (rather than the two on each side in the picture posted by Ooh Rah). The description of the plate says: "The figure wears the orange hat lace peculiar to the 4th".
You can just about make out the orange laces on the hat of the chap on the left. |
| Ooh Rah | 17 Feb 2016 8:38 p.m. PST |
That picture was the only one I could find on the Internet to post on TMP that showed the hat lace clearly.  Since starting this topic, I've been digging into my books. "Napoleon's Soldier's" by Guy Dempsey shows a Fusilier of the 8th Line with an orange "strip of lace" holding the cockade in place, and then comments that yellow is the color called for by regulations. I'm guessing that regulation is for the lace strip over the cockade -- this picture does not show hat lace on the bicorn. (page 92-93) Dempsey also shows an Officer of the 22nd Line with very elaborate hat lace, only Dempsey calls them "cords" in the text, which says: "The most obvious distinction comes from the decorative cords threaded through the hat, an extreme elaboration of the simple arrangement of cords included in every period to permit adjustment of the shape of that relatively malleable head-dress." (pg. 106-107) |
| von Winterfeldt | 18 Feb 2016 12:07 a.m. PST |
originally in the French army, according to 1786 regulations it should have been hooks and eyes to hold the brims in shape, those coloured "cords" seemingly only come up in the empire, I wouldn't opt for "orange / aurore" for the line but restirct it to the guard |
| dibble | 18 Feb 2016 4:17 a.m. PST |
I hope that this isn't too late. Something that I posted on another site: link The gold braid looks black because it has toned with age to a very dark greyish/brown colour. A fate that happens to most braids over time and exposure to pollution. The French word for this braid is 'ganse' which literally translated is 'gimp' (Umm!) but the other and correct translation for ganse is 'tape' or 'braid' Paul :) |
| von Winterfeldt | 18 Feb 2016 6:00 a.m. PST |
@dibble Thanks a lot, very very usefull – great but ganse, in this context I assume ganse de cockarde – for fixing the cockade – for the brims – seemingly here in both examples the regulation hooks and eyes were used |
| dibble | 18 Feb 2016 10:52 a.m. PST |
@von Winterfeldt
This is the what the original caption says for that French grenadier chapeau detail in the link above:
Paul :) |
paints the Dogman from the Flintloque starter set.
