"TY Potecknov's Bears" Topic

So last night I gave in and bought the Potecknov's Bears set for Team Yankee. My local store had marked the box sets down and $80.00 USD seemed a deal to me. However upon looking at the unit cards and reviewing the rule book I think I made the error in thinking that the Bears set was a viable starter force you could play right away after assembly and painting. Perhaps I am misinterpreting the force org charts incorrectly but it seems that you cannot field the 9 T-72s and 2 Hinds together as a force without a lot of other stuff. If that is the case then I am a bit disappointed as I hoped I could at least start with this box set and get in some games. Am I missing something? Can anyone point to where in the rule book this set up of units is allowed?

I should add the models are fantastic and I am looking forward to assembling them and getting them painted. So do not think I am discouraged. If I have to purchase more in order to do my first game of TY then that is what I will do. Regardless I will be able to use the models with other Cold War era rules such as the Force on Force supplement Cold War Gone Hot.

Yea that is what I now realize and feel somewhat foolish. Currently my local store does not have the BMP sets in and it appears that I need at least two companies of the BMPs with HQ plus two companies of T-72s with HQ before you even can look at fielding the Hinds. So while I have a good start on the tank regiment I still need to purchase the Soviet Infantry with BMPs in order to be able to do a basic game. Of course I will want more t-72s and having the AA Shilka platoon would be nice against US Cobras and Warthogs. Ah well I took the hook, sinker and line.

Why not try QRF for your Soviet needs? Any variant of Cold War T-72 you could want, BMP's, Shilkas, infantry, artillery etc. In faxt anything you could want. If you buy them in 3's they do a discounted platoon deal IIRC.

Are you planning on playing in a tournament? If not, then what you bought is worth 'X' points. Have your opponent bring a force of equal strength and throw down.

I'm really not trying to be snarky, but I'm always amazed when people feel compelled to stick to printed force lists. Especially when it's to the point of "I can't play with all my toys because the rules say I need this before I can use that".

You paid your money, you took the time to assemble and paint them. Now get out there and have some fun!! And if anyone gives you grief, tell them PzGeneral said it OK.

I think you are wrong, Kallman. You only need one HQ and two tank companies as mandatory. Whatever else you want to field would be up to you. The problem of fielding the Hind would be that they wouldn't count towards your morale and your force would be very brittle, morale wise. If my memory doesn't fails me the box allow you to field 2x4 T72 companies for 28 points; 1 T72 HQ for 5 points; and 2 Hind for 8 points (I think it is 8), or a 41 pts force. That would give you a basic force for games of about 30-45 minutes.

Old Glory is another option. And with the Old Glory Card it could be cheaper

Don't be a slave to the rules, and/or their "official" army lists.

I suspect in a real war, there'd be plenty of opportunities for just tanks to be supported by helos.

T72 hq is 5 pts, 2 t72 companies of 4 tanks and 17 pts each, 2 hinds is 5 pts. Total 44 points of a legal formation.
The team yankee community seems to be aiming for 100 points.

I have published an excel force calculator on the Team Yankee FB pages, and you will see that you can field a perfectly legit force with that box.

As has been pointed out, if you can't wait for BF to sort out their delivery issues there are other manufacturers of coldwar kit out there – including Zvezda hard plastics. Personally, having assembled and painted Battlefront, QRF, Old Glory/Skytrex, Khurusan and Zvezda, I intend to be patient and stick with BF – some of the best hard plastic models around. And you get the cards with them!

Our first game, mainly based on the content of Potecknov's Bears and Bannon's boys, but rounded out with Zvezda, Skytrex and QRF, can be seen here:
link

basileus66 is correct. There are basically two types of armies in TY, a tank-heavy force (Soviet Tank Battalion or US Armored Combat Team) or a mechanized infantry-heavy force (Soviet Motor Rifle Battalion or US Mechanized Combat Team). You can run all-tank armies with little or no infantry support at all if you so choose and vice-versa. It's all up to you.

The Potecknov's Bears starter set allows you to bring in two companies of 4 T-72's each plus the HQ tank. A Soviet tank company in TY can be anywhere between 3 and 10 T-72's so alternatively you can allocate one company with 5 tanks and the other with 3. Technically the Hinds aren't even needed for a legal TY force.

Likewise, the American starter set (Bannon's Boys) is a complete army with its 5 Abrams and 2 Cobras since an M-1 platoon only needs 2 tanks minimum and the HQ needs only 1 (though you can have up to 2). Again, the Cobras are optional, though with only the M-1's you're looking at a 40-points per side game.

Navy, good looking game. Are those roads a commercial product or home made?

Edit – After reading the game report, I see that they look to be made by a member of your group and only available at your FLGS. Sure would have liked to buy some, but they look to not do mail order.

Kenneth having had a look at the plastic Battlefront models in a local store I'm not sure I would agree on better detail and while the tanks work out at the same price as QRF the other vehicles are much more expensive. Shilkas are nearly £2.00 GBP more than the QRF model.
Oh and if you can find any of the Corgi Fighting Machines M1's they scale out at 1/100. If you drill out the rivets on the base you can remove the toy wheels and you are good to go with a ready painted tank.

Since when did a Soviet company have 4 vehicles? Following Soviet doctrine, any unit with companies that depleted (less than 50%) would be replaced by a full strength unit ASAP.

Are QRF still doing the unit discounts? They used to be a lot cheaper when bought in unit batches.

I don't have the Zvezda Shilka Ken, mine are all QRF. The Zvezda T-72 is interesting. Box art shows a standard T-72B with Kontakt-1 ERA the actual model is a T-72BM according to Zaloga with the newer Kontakt-5 ERA. This was the last T-72 in production at the time of the collapse of the USSR and had the 1K13 sight and could fire Svir tube launched ATGM's.

We have a built in quantity discount structure so the unit price in your cart goes down as the total cart value increases.

And we continue to add new models.

having had a look at the plastic Battlefront models in a local store I'm not sure I would agree on better detail

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that!

Battlefront BMP 1:

QRF BMP 2:

Whilst its fair to say the QRF website doesn't have the same photo resources as BF, I think objectively there is far more detail possible with hard plastic…
Of course many prefer the heft of metal – whereas I often have to travel to games, and I prefer to do my weightlifting in an A/C gym!

Since when did a Soviet company have 4 vehicles?

The minimum company size is actually 3, and an American M-1 "platoon" can be as few as 2 models. The rationale is to keep the entry cost down and make the list as flexible as possible for those with limited resources.

Even so, the Soviet motor rifle company is far less flexible. You can have "companies" of either 4, 9 or 12 BMP's (not incl. the HQ) with nothing in between.

I use 1/285 micro armor. Kallman, for $80 USD, Pick up at regular price a Russian Combat Command by GHQ for $50 USD (10 T-72 and 10 BMP-1s) and a pack of M1 Abrams (5)and a pack of M2 Bradleys(5) ($12 each). A company is 10 vehicles for Russians, 14 Abrams(or Bradleys) plus other support vehicles.
The table top looks more reasonable with with 6mm figures vs. 15mm IMHO. Easier to move and use tactical plans and maneuver.

I think objectively there is far more detail possible with hard plastic…

Actually the tooling method for plastics means that you are more likely to see simplifications, especially in undercuts.

Yes always makes I laugh when people claim you get sharper detail in metal than hard plastic! Great value!

Check out those vent grills on the BMP-1 – Pwhoaarr!

Check out those vent grills on the BMP-1 – Pwhoaarr!

Yes, but such a shame they are so massively over scale! Maybe you can't get as fine a detail as you thought. :-)

On the other hand the QRF BMP grilles look more in scale with the real vehicle.

There is a common problem with scale over perception. In reality the gaps between panels, when scaled down to 1:100 scale, should not even be visible. If you scale up many of them, you will find you actually have 4" bolt heads and gaps between panels that you could almost fit your head between.

But wargamers insist on them :-)

The Zvezda plastics are not very detailed.

One feature that QRF are noted for is more realistically scaled gun barrels

"One feature that QRF are noted for is more realistically scaled gun barrels"
Which, on the cold war range Marder, fall off when hit by a draft of wind…..

That raises another interesting difference between hard plastic and metal – sure initially metal is more robust, and easier to bend back, for a while, but hard plastic is a lot easier to glue broken bits back on…

Gun barrel thicknesses was something we had debated for a while, but we asked customers if we should make them thicker. Almost without exception we were told no, although they may require more delicate handling it was a primary feature that customers liked our vehicles for, especially ex servicemen. That was good enough for us.

I'm not sure that a thin plastic barrel is any easier to glue back than a thin metal barrel, but perhaps the difference is that we will probably send you a replacement barrel…

For instance, I'm pretty sure the barrels on the 30mm gun in most BMP-2 models are too thick. But if you made them precisely to scale they'd be very fragile. That's ok for a scale modeller's display case, but not
for the ham hands around a wargames table!

Not sure that's an excuse for BF's drain cover over scaled grills though. They should have been able to do a better job than that.

The Zvezda plastics are not very detailed.

Agreed. Not so bad for the WW2 models at £3.00 GBP a time, but with the moderns at £6.00 GBP-7 I would hope for better detail.

That raises another interesting difference between hard plastic and metal – sure initially metal is more robust, and easier to bend back, for a while, but hard plastic is a lot easier to glue broken bits back on…

Never had much success gluing back thin gun barrels in metal or plastic. Usually needs replacement with brass rod. As for metal apart from thin stuff like gun barrels never had anything else broken when I drop them. More likely to come apart where glued than break. Not so for plastic where once the glue has set you can't get it apart without breaking it.