"What figs do I need for Vietnam US squad?" Topic

Hey Guys,
My wife wants to try Vietnam in 28mm.
So I'm getting her a few American squads
for Valentine's Day.
Ordering TAG figs, but not sure what the squad/team/platoon make up should be.

Assuming you're doing Army, a company had rifle platoons and a heavy wepaons platoon. The weapons platoon usually ditched the recoilless rifles and gave the M60s to the rifle platoons.

Assuming your squads are full strength (my father said his company was never better than 80% and his exp. was typical), a platoon would look like:

Platoon Leader
Platoon Sergeant

3 Squads Each Of:
NCO/Sergeant
RTO
M60 Gunner
Loader
M79 Grenadier
7 Riflemen

You might add an M60 from the weapons platoon and again, your squads should be about 8 or 9 men each field strength.

Thanks Crispy!

At platoon level, get a radio operator (RTO). For a bit of extra colour, you can have an ARVN or Montagnard liason figure.

What does RTO stand for?
Michael

Michael, Radio Transmitter Operator

I thought the M60's weren't part of the squads? Or have I been wrong all along? :-)

Thank you mjkerner.
Michael

M-60 teams were not a squad level weapon from interviews I have had with several veterans.

Each weapons platoon had 6 M-60 teams, usually those were broken down and assigned 2 per infantry platoon.

As 1 platoon leader ('68-'69 – III Corp area of operations) told me, he would keep 1 M-60 team with his command group to be deployed as he saw fit and assign the other to whatever squad was on point for that days operations. He would let the squad leader of that squad determine what where he want the gun team.

Now, nothing is written in stone.

I also interviewed a veteran of the fighting 9th Infantry Division who was involved in the fighting south of Saigon in May, '68. He was a squad leader and said he carried a M-60, his squad was down to 5 men by the time the operation was over. A good read on this is Keith Nolan's "House to House". He was not in the battalion in the book, but in the sister battalion.

The main point is not every squad had an M-60, at least leg rifle squads. Aero Rifle Platoons (the Blues) were 6 man squads and each did have an M-60, but they are a whole different TO&E.

I also interviewed another veteran who said that any time you could beg, borrow or steal an extra M-60, you did, as they were "pure gold" in a firefight.

Also, everyone I have interviewed over the years (Army and Marines) said their rifle companies were never up to full strength. 70-80 percent often, but could be lower.

One platoon leader in the Riverine Force told me he only had 22 men at one point.

On radios, the Army had them at squad level by '66 and one assigned to the platoon leader and the platoon sgt.

Marines only had radios for the platoon leader and platoon sgt until April – May, '67, then at squad level.

One Marine rifleman I spoke with was picked as his squads RTO, he had no training before but was given 2 hours in the field and presto, your a radioman.

He said he hated that radio as before he was just another guy, but with the radio the bad guys always seemed to shoot at him first.

Minis for Valentine's Day? You married well sir!

I hope you are getting something else for her on V-Day too, or this will not end well, I suspect.

Offer to run the V.C. for her too!

I've lugged a PRC-25 radio on my back and I hated it because of the weight.

My US army platoon has a four man HQ section officer, NCO, RTO and medic

There are three rifle squads with 2 fire teams each.
Each fire team has 4 M-16 and 1 M-79. That is a total of 10 figures per squad.

The weapons squad is made up of 11 men. While the original organization calls for 2 M-60 and 2 antitank teams, my understanding is that they actually carried 2 or 3 M-60s.

I alway build and paint full strength units. I just don't alway deploy them as such.

I strongly suggest you pick up a copy of Ambush Valley. It's worth the price just for the background material.

Oh no Mako, she's quite happy with the minis.
But of course we go out to celebrate.
And I have offered to paint all the VC for her.
I married very well.

Agree with V Carter. Build to paper strength, deploy under.

Sounds like it, D6.

Congratulations!

Wow, D6 Junkie, you found a keeper!

What organisation of a platoon which fell to 14-21 effectives would be normal. In those circumstances would the PL fold into a 2 squad organisation or maintain 3 low strength squads?

Good question. I imagine, in part, it would have to do with the mission. I read an after action report in which it appeared a platoon (lead by a platoon leader and a platoon sgt) was composed of two 9 man squads, each with an M-60. Squad organization in the field seemed to be pretty fluid.

if you are short on terrain, you can do a central highlands patrol. this is where Col. moore and 1st cavalry action took place.
As noted M60s were not common on patrols. In training patrols we used them in deensive positions mainly. A few pre-set ambushes had them but claymores were the preferred ammunition for ambushes.

I think they'd try to make 2 x squads, as large as possible, and given reports of how others have tended to fight (going back to the WWII US and German tactics), would want to hold on to all of their heavy weapons to give the smaller "platoon" more strength, ditching rifles, if necessary to make that happen.

That seems to be the current US doctrine, and seems to be the same for others as well. Firepower helps make up a bit for the lack of men, especially where automatic weapons are concerned.

American, Cold War squads tend to hold on to their LMGs, SAWs, Dragons, etc..

The platoon leader in the Riverine Force that had 22 men did just what you were saying with 2 under-strength squads and a reduced platoon command group.

It was interesting that the Army was very flexible on organization while the Marines would maintain the 3 fireteam TO&E regardless of numbers in the platoon, ie: 3 man fireteams (Marine squad on paper was 13 men, 3 x 4 man fireteams lead by Cpl. and a squad leader, Sgt.). Never up to full strength.

My uncle's USMC squad was usually 8 – 9, but still broken into 3 fireteams. I also spoke with a Marine vet who said they gave the M-79 to the worst shot in the squad, don't know if that was standard practice.

Are the TAG models suitable for USMC, circa '67-69?