"AOE or Blucher ?" Topic

I'm pretty set on tactical rules (carnage and glory or General de Brigade)…..but which rules would you recommend for larger actions, AOE or Blucher? I have AOE and I have played Grande Armee, but have no experience with Blucher. Which has the best feel for a Napoleonic game with historical results? Brigade sized units are as large as I'd like to go….

I prefer AoE. But then I like the mechanics. So far most games have had reasonably historical results in a reasonable amount of time.

Yes indeed-very weird and happening at an increasing rate.
If you are ok with GA then Blutcher should work ok for you, especially with the Schnarhost ( spelling) campaign component which brings together the needed element for GT LVL play. I am very curious about this add on.
I have not played either of these yet ( GA or Blutcher).

My Grandtactical have all been AoE modified or Empire V to date.
I plan to trial a modified version (from friend's plan) of C&G where the unit becomes the regiment( each base/sabot of 2 more troop stands is the battalion or a group of small battalions[Boridino/Leipzig] or cav battle group) and the orders would be more strictly enforced/emphasized in game play,per the C&G system.

MG

Blucher by far. The pre-game campaign to create the scenario puts you at army level command like no other ruleset. I also love the reserve movement. It just feels so Napoleonic to release the Old Guard at precisely the correct time to create that masse de rupture!

To me AOE feels a bit like a battalion game pretending to be operating at brigade level. Blucher definitely hands you a marshal's baton.

Snappy Nappy are very good for large actions, playable within a reasonable period. One stand represents 2000 infantry.

Blucher.

Blucher

I haven't played the others, but I really like Blucher.

Blucher has flexible basing as log as both sides are the same Both games have their god and bad points so a choice between the two will come down to a personal choice I would suggest you try both an then decide

Take a look at Et Sans Resultat. It is a fast moving Grand Tactical game that looks and feels right. It's also a lot of fun to play. Further, they are well supported by the author who has just announced a forthcoming scenario book for 1812 to be followed by others which will cover Napoleon's other campaigns. Basing is very flexible and is based on chosen ground scale. We use 8 figures on 11/2 inch x 1 inch bases to represent a battalion of around 500 at 1 inch = 100 yards (2 Nap. Battles Infantry bases).

All three (including Volley & Bayonet here) have their strengths, but there is a real scale of how much period detail is included. As usual, there is a balance between detail and speed of play, although that is all relative as "detail" here is at the brigade level, and they all can play pretty quickly if you know the rules.

AoE probably the slowest playing, but has the most detail in terms of C&C, maneuver, and combat. The multiple base units also allow for more flexibility in representing different formations and strengths, and the "Fire and Fury" integrated C&C and morale system works as usual, with some interesting period twists.

V&B is in the middle ground, with fairly simple but extremely quick and decisive movement (a real strength), and a few layers of detail added in maneuver and combat to represent the period. It works very well, but you need to provide your own C&C, because there really isn't any (other than a basic command radius system). V&B 2e also has a great scenario generation system.

Both V&B and AoE are time-tested systems that have hung around for a reason.

Blucher is the most vanilla of the lot, with units, movement, and combat being fairly generic (and not terribly decisive). There are a few attempts at period detail in the combat system, but the game really hinges around the game's C&C system, which is an odd balance between familiar command points (the usual "spend 1 to move formation, more to move individual units etc.") and the fact that your opponent throws your command dice and you don't know how many you have (pure gamist tension builder). However, the campaign system is really good – plays quickly, makes sense, provides interesting battles, and easily home-ruled.

It might be interesting to blend the Blucher campaign system with the V&B2 scenario system, and then use V&B or AoE (depending on how much detail you want) to play the battles, but Blucher didn't sell me on tabletop play – although that might change if you're into C&C system twists.

Cheers,

Christopher

I think in some ways its what you want to imagine.

Blucher is definitely the most abstracted as its built for speed of play and the high level decisions.

However, I've never liked the appearance of games where the units are Brigades but they appear on the table as multi stand units in columns and lines just the same as if they represented Battalions – AoE/Fire and Fury and Naps Battles falling into that group.

Personally, I find it easier to lie to myself that a block shape – Blucher for example – could have various formations in that area than a single column or line represents several units in that formation.

Matter of taste I suppose.

Word to Madmac64 – although Grande Armee is undoubtedly Blucher's Daddy and having played it will give you some clues to the abstraction level, Blucher is a far better game.

Blucher.

Boucher.

Blucher.

I tend to disagree that it is too vanilla.(and V&B isn't?).

You can get a national unit flavor using the unit characteristics, for example British line gets added firepower and steadiness in defense, etc. The game reflects the attritional nature of Napoleonic warfare quite well.

It plays fast, did Ligny in 4 hours at Fall-In, basing size is adjustable, and it has the campaign system. AFAIK there is a sample scenario you can download with some basic rules from the web site.

I have also found that AoE requires a slew of figures and again it is plays with battalions masquerading as brigades much like Napoleons Battles did. Love F&F but AoE does not work as well IMO.

We play AOE but I am not a fan. Not a fan of Blucher either. I like doing big battles at battalion scale as oppose to brigades. Yes, I am a glutton for punishment but it looks so cool, all those battalions. I love it. For brigade scale, I actually prefer boardgames.

Neither – but then again, I am picky when it comes to rules.

picky??? or just one that enjoys sneering? I guess there always has to be at least one in these threads.

I enjoy Blucher very much. It is a true brigade level game. I find it has good Napoleonic flavor too. I'm not familiar with AoE, but don't like battalion level for large battles.

Thanks for the comments guys…..one question about Blucher….I went to Sam's website and looked at the sample page…..when rolling for Momentum points, is there a modifier for the quality of commander….for example, a Napoleon in his prime would be expected to have greater impact than say, an Archduke Ferdinand….?

Great comments….thank you all for taking the time.

Anover vote for Et Sans Resultat.

One more vote for Blucher, it simplifies all the things that it needs to and keeps all the details that are relevant.

To answer your question: the momentum roll is not modified by the commander, however your commanders have certain abilities that allow them to use momentum differently. Napoleon in his prime, for example, can activate a corps once per turn at half the regular momentum cost. Wellington gets to see the value of the momentum die being rolled.

"Napoleon in his prime, for example, can activate a corps once per turn at half the regular momentum cost."

Not quite correct. Napoleon can activate a corps per turn for 2 MO. This activation could be of any size (so long as they are all the same corps for example), so you could activate say 8 units at once, normally 8 MO, for a quarter of the normal cost. It must however, be the fist activation of his turn. On top of this he is a "legend" so his army morale is 50% of the force instead of 33%.

Wellington can see his MO during his turn if he wishes so that he can be as efficient as possible. He can also activate with his General (which normally ends the turn, even for Napoleon!) without it automatically ending the turn!