Help support TMP


"20 million people may have once inhabited the Amazon ..." Topic


7 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Utter Drivel Message Board


Areas of Interest

General

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Ruleset

BrikWars


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

Stuff It! (In a Box)

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian worries about not losing his rules stuff.


Featured Workbench Article

Raising a Giant Succulent

Blocking line-of-sight and channeling movement through elevating a plant.


Featured Profile Article

How Scurvy Got His "Style"

How Scurvy developed his unique approach to miniatures.


Current Poll


852 hits since 1 Feb 2016
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tango0101 Feb 2016 10:14 p.m. PST

…rainforest.

"To the untrained eye, all evidence here in the heart of the Amazon signals virgin forest, untouched by man for time immemorial – from the ubiquitous fruit palms to the cry of howler monkeys, from the air thick with mosquitoes to the unruly tangle of jungle vines.

Archaeologists, many of them Americans, say the opposite is true: This patch of forest, and many others across the Amazon, was instead home to an advanced, even spectacular civilization that managed the forest and enriched infertile soils to feed thousands.

The findings are discrediting a once-bedrock theory of archaeology that long held that the Amazon, unlike much of the Americas, was a historical black hole, its environment too hostile and its earth too poor to have ever sustained big, sedentary societies. Only small and primitive hunter-gatherer tribes, the assumption went, could ever have eked out a living in an unforgiving environment.

But scientists now believe that instead of stone-age tribes, like the groups that occasionally emerge from the forest today, the Indians who inhabited the Amazon centuries ago numbered as many as 20 million, far more people than live here today…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

books2thesky02 Feb 2016 3:17 a.m. PST

Very interesting!

zippyfusenet02 Feb 2016 7:32 a.m. PST

There is a lot of accumulating evidence for very extensive landscape engineering, you could call it terra-forming, by native American civilizations going back thousands of years, in the Amazon, the Andes, the Valley of Mexico, the Sonora desert, the eastern woodlands of North America and elsewhere.

For me, this evidence raises some Big Questions about what benefits we may gain for the present and future.

Although some large projects, the building of dams, canals and monuments, must have required complex social organization, it seems that most of the work was accomplished by individual peasant farmer house-holds, each improving their own holdings generation by generation.

Gardeners' improvements to soil and flora in their village neighborhoods enabled early civilizations to feed millions at subsistance level, but do not scale well for application to modern, industrial agriculture. At this moment, for example, productive fruit and nut orchards in the Brazilian Amazon are being bulldozed to create pasture for industrial cattle ranching. The accumulated capital of hundreds of generations of peasant labor is being squandered, and can never be re-created. But in some places, local communities are reclaiming these long abandoned resources for household-based production.

Historically, peasant communities have been unwilling to leave their land. Only the most brutal social engineering (Stalin, Mao, the Irish potato famine, Enclosure in Britain) has been able to move a peasantry en mass into cities to become an industrial labor force, and clear their land for agri-business.

Perhaps we should re-think the social benefits of complete industrialization for every society? Perhaps we should re-think the benefits of agriculture carried out by a prosperous peasant class, kulaks, vs. complete industrialization of food production?

One book I recently read on this subject is David L. Lentz, Editor Imperfect Balance/Landscape Transformations in the Pre-Columbian Americas, c. 2000, Columbia University Press, New York, ISBN 0-231-11157-6. This collection of academic papers surveys landscape engineering prior to European contact in many regions of the Americas. It's a thick book, dry in style and I had to plow through it, but I thought it was worth the effort.

Charles C. Mann 1493/How Europe's Discovery of the Americas Revolutionized Trade, Ecology and Life on Earth c. 2011, Granta Publications, London, ISBN 978-1-84708-049-3, is a popular history with a broader subject, but also introduces the topic of landscape engineering in the pre-Columbian Americas. It's a good place to start.

Tango0102 Feb 2016 10:21 a.m. PST

Glad you enjoyed it my friend.

Good thread zippyfusenet !! (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

tberry740302 Feb 2016 7:27 p.m. PST

It is amazing how much we "know" about non-European civilizations is wrong.

books2thesky02 Feb 2016 11:26 p.m. PST

Wow, thanks very much zippyfusenet for the additional information and the book recommendations! Very interesting, though sad to hear how these resources are now being cast aside.

zippyfusenet03 Feb 2016 5:23 p.m. PST

books2thesky, I suspect we have something in common, we both read an awful lot.

The news is not all sad. Most of these landscape capital improvements were abandoned and forgotten in the cataclysmic population crash that followed the Spanish conquest. Today in some places, now that they have been rediscovered and understood, constructs like raised fields, sunken fields and old drainage and irrigation systems are being repaired and put back into production. Here is a concrete benefit from archaeology in the present, if we will make use of it.

nvdoyle03 Feb 2016 9:07 p.m. PST

tberry7403, what most people "know" about European civilization is wrong.

Yes, I'm a medievalist, why do you ask? grin

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.