"Old D&D Question" Topic

My daugter and friends are feeling a bit overwhelmed by the current D&D edition. I thought I'd scour Ebay for my trusty old Player's Handbook, the one with the thief cutting out a jewel from a scary statue:

But all the ones I see on Ebay have different covers. Was this set of books (with GM guide and Monster Manual) ever published with different covers?

Any and all help appreciated.

Are these the same books? Would pick up this set of they are.

Not the same. Those are 4th edition, which is very much unlike first edition.

Not my listing, so no endorsement per se, but…

auction

Not sure if those others are the same book or not, but I found plenty of the old cover AD&D PH on ebay. Not sure what search words you are using?

Chalfant

Here is a slightly dinged one…

auction

Chalfant

The same book also had this cover.

All three of the AD&D 1st edition books got revised covers in the '80s.

My experience is that the newest edition is more new player friendly than any of the old editions especially 1st Edition AD&D – but if that is what you are more comfortable running –

The first edition books have been reprinted but the cover artwork includes a portion of the original artwork:

Mark, you can get all the old DnD books on dndclassics.com/browse.php?filters=44735_0_44700 in PDF.

link

Click on the various versions to see the covers and various differences in the print editions

The latest 5th edition is far more new player friendly than the 1st or 2nd editions.

Grab a copy of the intro box set, great mini campaign, cut down version of the rules (the same rules, just only the relevant ones) and have fun. Totally not overwhelming. The PHB is even available free online as a PDF.

I can't think of anything more likely to turn a modern player away from D&D than presenting themselves with the muddle that was 1st edition, whatever our nostalgia may say.

If D&D is too complex, give Tunnels and Trolls a try.

A great option for a simpler game is B/X (basic/expert) D&D which comes from about the same time as AD&D but has a simple core and is aimed at younger/first-time players (but ois suitable for all!).
Check out dndclassics.com for PDFs of everything.
If you want the extra classes+spells of AD&D in a B/X format then there is a modern re-write (clone) called Labyrinth Lord that includes the B/X rules and has an add-on companion that adds the extra bits from AD&D (without the complexity) called the Advanced Edition Companion
link

Another site to visit: acaeum.com

Mr Brennan is right, the B/X is an alternative to AD&D or the various clones. I'm not a fan of the recent iterations though if you have played and enjoyed it, good, it's a broad temple, church, I mean holy place.

David Sutherland illustrated the covers for AD&D first edition Players, Dungeon and Monster Manuals. Later they were repackaged with Jeff Easley art but the rules were the same.

I'm totally confused. What is Pathfinder? I thought that was the latest D&D version?

Mark – Nope, Pathfinder picks up where D&D 3.5 left off (basically), with some rules changes and streamlining.

It has been constantly updated since it came out with more streamlining and expanding more classes and whatnot, but (my opinion) it is a VERY detail-oriented and complicated system to learn from scratch. I am a looooong time 2ndEd DM and I gave myself a very wide learning curve for changing over to Pathfinder.

So long as you start player and DM with baby-steps, it is easy enough not to get overwhelmed by the options and choices and, "builds."

I'm a 1E guy and I've done illustrations for some of the retroclones too. But it's hard to beat the original AD&D. I've heard really good things about Savage Worlds though.

Pathfinder is a D&D 3.0/3.5 clone based on the d20 license. It is basically a continuation of the 3.5 ruleset, which 4th and 5th editions have largely gone away from.

For clarity, here are the significant editions:

D&D White/Brown box. The original system derived from Chainmail.

D&D Holmes (for the author), aka D&D Blue Box/Book (also Full Color Box/Book). An update of above, and for many old time D&Ders, their intro to the game. This was really the first mass produced edition.

AD&D 1st ed. The Gygax books, published shortly after and in conjunction with D&D Holmes. These are the books with two covers by Sutherland (DMG and MM) and one by David Trampier (the PH cover you showed). Expanded by Dieties & Demigods, the MM2, and the Fiend Folio, none of which you need.

D&D Basic/Expert, aka D&D Moldvay (for the author). These are the boxes and books with the covers by Erol Otus (creepy, stylistic art, very flowing). These modified the Holmes edition (and it is often called Moldvay/Holmes), and are a much beloved version by fans today. Most "old school" clones are based on this version.

AD&D 2nd Edition: Revisions and expansions of the Gygax books, with new rules and character classes. This became the dominant version until the Wizards of the Coast era. Countless supplements and additional books, including a loose-leaf approach to the Monster Manual. Though still quite popular, the over-expansion of this edition in part contributed to TSR's fall.

D&D Basic "Red Box" edition, aka "The Boxed Sets" aka D&D BECMI, for "Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortals" the titles of the expansion boxed sets. Also known as D&D Mentzer. Published alongside D&D 2nd, this was an update of Moldvay, expanded to include higher levels and the Druid and Mystic (aka Monk) classes, and introduce the concepts of Paladins, Knights and Avangers as higher-level class "directions" for fighters (not so much classes themselves). This was written to have more appeal to younger players, though it remains popular among older players as well. Compiled and revised into the single-book D&D Rules Cyclopedia by Aaron Allston, this is my prefrerred edition. It is also the edition that spawned the D&D Known World Gazetteers, later updated for AD&D into the Mystara campaign setting. There were a number of boxed sets and introductory sets released for this version, but the rules are the same among all of these. It's just the same version as Mentzer's, rephrased each time by someone else.

DragonQuest; This was an introductory boxed version of Mentzer, intended for ages 10 and up, with much simplified rules for the DM. Spells, monsters, traps, characters, equipment and treasure items were all printed on cards, with a multi-use dungeon board and a three-adventure campaign. Included plastic and metal Ral Partha character figs and monster standees. Not a bad intro, really.

D&D 3.0: WotC's takeover edition. Heavy emphasis on character customization and gaining abilities and special powers on advancement.
3.5 Even more of the above.

D&D 4.0: A step away from the customization slant, emphasizing combat (almost really a skirmish game), but with a very "video-game" like feel and terminology. Largely despised by old-line gamers.

D&D 5th edition, aka D&D Next: The current edition. A simplified approach to the character customization version of 3-3.5. I think it works fairly well, though I'm not a fan of the "level up for fancy powers" aspect of the game. Lots of character classes, and a heavy emphasis on magical abilities (for example, Barbarians gain the ability to turn into specific animals, such as a bear, and this phenomenal ability happens at very low levels). Comes as a boxed Starter Kit, that is supposedly playable to level 20, and the standard three-book PH, DMG, MM hardbound rules.

Almost all the significant editions are available online as PDFs. Personally, I recommend the D&D Rules Cyclopedia or at least the Mentzer Basic D&D Red Book rules. (Be aware that if you look for the D&D Red Boxed set, that WotC released a version of 4th edition in the classic Elmore cover Red Box. It may look similar, but it's not the same edition.)

If your daughter is overwhelmed by d&d 5th go,all the way back to the basics. Drivethrurpg has the origanal 1974 version of d&d for $10 USD

Hey, Mark. Send me an e-mail (use my member name, with @aol.com appended). Maybe I can help you out; I've got an intro edition of the Mentzer "Basic" system that I'd be happy to trade.

In all honesty, as a Dungeon Master for more than 30 years and a dyed in the wool 2 edition fanatic, for new gamers I'd go with 5e. I've got some custom character sheets I'm happy to share which greatly simplify understanding, and there are optional rules with a few house ones which make 5e even simpler than its standard game play.

If you or anyone want more details I'm happy to provide via email or even willing to do an article for TMP. Let me know – cheers!

@Parzival – Thanks for taking the time to share all of that info!

If I was starting today, I'd go with the 5th edition. It cleaned up a lot of the rules from the 1st and 2nd edition. Strangely enough the one thing that did not improve over time was the artwork; 1st edition had the best and it was published before the era of political correctness. I remember the DMG had a bunch of sketches with funny captions. A serious work that could also make fun of itself; I loved it.

Back to the original question, yes several different covers. If you just want to play a game ADD or 1st edition (same thing) work just fine. I have played at least some with all the editions, and yes if you have never played before the modern ones have a lot more options than the old ones.

Dont sweat all the folks pushing their personal favorite. Happens every time you mention a set or edition lots of folks tell you to play their favorite even if it doesnt have anything to do with your question.

Besides if it was me I would go with rune quest……

Owen

Been down this road in the 1980s and then returned to the Basic and Expert (red and blue) rules. It was a hoot. AD&D was just too complex.

Looking back, the best games I had were probably using basic and very early 1ed. Frankly, we simply ignored some stuff and kept what we liked.

A lot is going to depend on what they want. A lot of this is imagination and creativity; if you want lots of clever skills and add on chrome, then later editions are probably the way to go "my rogue is using sidestep this turn" but equally the sheer simplicity of basic or earlier gives you so much more room to simply make it up.

Say your daughter wants to play a certain type of fighter – let's say a sword and dagger, swashbuckling type. She can treat the dagger as a shield for parrying, have an extra point of AC because, she's going to need it seeing how she can wear nothing heavier than leather armour until say 5th level, then it's chain. Otherwise it's fighter business as usual.

They clearly have imaginations because they are playing D&D. Go for the version that enables them to use the imagination the most.

How about you, Extra Crispy, pick a set of rules you are very familiar with, and teach them as their DM?

D&D is best learned from an experienced player serving as the DM. Rules should take a back seat to role playing, and fun, IMO. The rules are not as important as the enjoyment the players get from play. Cheers!

I'm teaching my kids, and now some of their friends using the older D&D Basic/Expert, aka D&D Moldvay, sets. I've also just purchased a Rules Cyclopedia as it homogenises the previous BECMI books.

My boys' friends had their first session Sunday past. It was amusinging to hear their questions – all very much video game oriented. The poor magic user couldn't understand having only one spell all day (and he at first thought it was a real day, not a game day). Also, gathering loot. One guy was scooping it all up like it was his because he got there first. He was very befuddled to learn that loot was divided up at the end between all players. Oh yeah, and no re-spawning :)

However, they very much got into it and are eager for another session, so I count that as a success even if my DM skills were rusty.

Cool! The Basic/Expert Sets are my favorite version. Rules Cyclopedia is mostly compatible, although there are some changes.

Here's to wishing you and your kids many happy hours of gaming fun.