"New to Wargames" Topic

Hi all

Looking to start wargaming, and I was thinking of the 'Open Fire' Flames of War offering.

I know this is subjective, but is Flames of War the best WW2 game out there currently? I've watched a couple of Youtube videos and it looks interesting.

Any advice appreciated

Thanks

EDIT: Thank you all for the advice. I have to post my replies here because it says "There is a waiting period of three days before new members may post on the forums."

I'd like to go with 15m minis and FoW is popular around my area.

I guess I should also mention that I can't paint and don't like to paint.

Best is VERY subjective… as it all depends what you want from a game, especially as you are starting out.

Whats 'best' for me, may be of no use to you, as for example I have never played FoW. I play other WW2 rules…

If you are just starting out, things to consider are what others might be playing near you, what size of figures and scenery you want to invest in, how much space and time you want to devote to the hobby, and what sort of game 'scale' do you want to play?

There are scores of options for playing WW2 games, but the above questions may help you narrow the field down a little and help you make an informed choice from the inevitable list of options you will be given.

Good luck… after three decades playing WW2 wargames its still my favourite period.

Ditto what PiersBrand said, especially the bit about seeing what the locals near you play. Find a local group and join in a couple of games before buying anything.

It's not the best. I say that as someone who has played it and many other WW2 games. However, it is in my top 5 of WW2 rules sets.

Having said that, for a newcomer and for someone keen to get into WW2 wargaming but doesn't know much about how to go about starting then it's the best choice. For starters, it's got a large fan base so you'll find plenty of other people to play with. The rules are well laid out for the most part; you'll find things clearly labelled and with a good index plus there's plenty of online videos and tutorials to help you.

The biggest plus with FoW is that it guides the newcomer through a lot of things; from organising your forces. to painting guides and figures and models are packed so that you'll have the right number for your forces. In short, Flames of War takes away a lot of the time consuming task of wading through a lot of books and research material: It truly is great for the newcomer.

Now there's a section of gamers who hate it; mostly those who've been involved with the hobby a long time and have strong opinions as to how games should be. There's also a lot of misconceptions that get trotted out by those who don't play it or have just watched it; take these opinions with a pinch of salt for the most part. It's not a bad game at all, it's not the most accurate WW2 game but it does the job well enough. It is, mostly, entertaining to play especially if you're in good company. I'd say no rules set is perfect, but Flames of War is perfectly alright.

Best thing about FOW is you can find a group to play with in most areas. Also the basing is good for using in other games. I use my FOW stuff for 3 other games. The rules are well supported and so is the game. After you get into it your tastes may open up for other rules systems. Only warning about FOW is after you buy the starter stuff, step back and think about the units you want to add and why. I for one added a lot of units I just never use. Otherwise Enjoy play have fun warGAMING can be a lot of fun and mostly the people I have met have been the best bunch of folks you could hang out with. Even if the disagreements can get a little silly at times.

If FoW is popular in your area, then this is a "no brainer" decision. Go with Flames of War. The miniatures are pretty good, if not a bit on the pricey side. They are a one stop shop for gaming. The "Open Fire" set is a good value. If I were keen on starting up and were in your shoes (with others in the area already playing), Flames of War would be a good choice.

I started FoW this year and I've already gone off it. That said lots of people love it and its popularity means you're very likely to find local opponents. Bear in mind that the rulebook in Open Fire is NOT the full rulebook but a lite version. My advice would be to visit your local club and see what they're playing, I'm sure they'll be happy to let you have a go and see which games are for you.

If FOW is populat is your area, start with that. You can always experiment with other rules at your convenience. Welcome to historical gaming!

I'd add that the Open Fire set is good value if you're starting out and want to introduce friends who are not yet wargamers.

I don't know about best, unless you mean "most likely to find an opponent in any random hobby store."

I got into historicals through Flames, before that I'd been strictly a 40k gamer.

My gaming group generally likes Flames, and we play at least once a month. Often more like once a week. I think I can talk the guys into a Vietnam Aces campaign, which is a slow-grow league, gives you time to paint models and still play.

Ruleswise, I think I prefer Pier's Battlegroup XYZ rules to Flames, but it may be harder to find an opponent.

If there are people playing Flames of War in your area, I think Flames of War is a great way to get into wargaming, especially historical wargaming.

I know this because it's what I chose myself a few years back! I came from a fantasy/sci-fi wargaming background and decided upon Flames of War (although I do solo and 1/72, but ignore all that) and I've absolutely loved it. I think the best thing it does is give a framework to build a list that is, at the very least, quasi-historical and then if you feel like learning more it allows you to play all sorts of very, very historical lists and matchups with almost all minor nations (minus the Pacific) getting a list of two to use.

If you end up deciding you like a different system, it still will have been worth your time and money to play Flames of War. 15mm WWII minis are 15mm WWII minis, usable in all sorts of different games.

I highly recommend Flames of War for you starting out in wargaming.

If you find a group playing FOW see if you can some using their miniatures and see if you like the mechanics of the game. Finding opponents is the most important aspect to historical gaming. Most of the people I play Micro Armor with are 1.5-3 hours away. This limits the frequency of when I play. For ACW and naval I can play with a group 10 minutes away. You guess what I play more often.

As others have said, "Best" is very subjective, but I think many players of WW2 who look for a degree of realism in their games would not consider FoW high on the list. It's not my main period of interest, but the games I have seen have not impressed me with " car parks" of tanks etc. I also think the actual miniatures produced for flames of war, at least the resin ones, are rubbish compared to the best of the plastics and metals available.
My own personal favourite is probably Chain of Command., with 20mm or 1/72 figures. It has the great advantage for a beginner of being playable with a relatively small number of figures (equivalent of a platoon- about 30 figures) and vehicles- a tank, perhaps a couple of APCs or an AT gun. It is also well supported by video tutorials on YouTube, the book is not too expensive and, most important, it is fun to play.
I have also had some good games of Battlegroup, but that is a more expensive proposition, with the books at around £25.00 GBP each and, although you can start with a relatively small force ( I used my Chain of Command units initially) you can soon get sucked into really big forces, especially if you go for the Russians in Barbarossa- masses of little BT tanks and a fair number of T34s, with hordes of infantry. There are 15 mm figures available, , but many of us play with 20mm or 10 mm, there are even some players using 6 mm figures. A much better game than FoW IMHO.

I'd like to dispel a common misconception in the post above: Flames of War is more realistic than people give it credit for; it certainly shows the value of using combined arms and although not rivet-counting realistic, it will give you a general feel for WW2 battles.

Also the "car park of tanks" criticism is really old hat and not strictly true. It's not the game, it's the style of play people adopt. I've seen wall to wall tanks in games of Rapid Fire, WRG, TAC, Battlegroup, Panzergrenadier and a slew of microarmour games: If players want to flood their games with dozens of tanks you'll get the same effect no matter what the game.

Chain of Command, I love the game and it's my second favourite but it's not really an entry level game and it doesn't do combined arms at company level. By all means do check it out in the future, but if you're new to the hobby and your friends are as well, it's best to leave it until you have a few games under your belt.

Thanks all for the advice

Flames of War, whilst not perfect, does seem to be a good choice for starting off, especially with the Open Fire box set.

That said, I'm a bit concerned about how much is left out of the Open Fire rule book as compared to the full rule book. Does anyone know what rules are left out in general?

If there's a following of FoW in your area (IIRC that's what you said), then maybe there's too a starting interest in Team Yankee, the newest, 1980s iteration of FoW. Very recommendable, even as a starter for FoW. It is a streamlined version of FoW (to say so), easier to learn, fast and furious. Also the minis are gorgeous and you'll need less of them for the moment. Also, Abrams tanks, Cobra gunships, Warthogs, Hinds and T 80s. What's not to love?

Open Fire contains a few tanks, a couple of platoons of infantry and support so the rules reflect the forces you're supplied with in the box. What's left out is stuff such as air support, reconnaissance, artillery and some of the scenario rules or national characteristics for forces not included in Open Fire. It's still good value though.

@ Dogged – I don't get out of the house much these days due to ill health, so I'll be hoping to game in my back room with a few friends and my son (if he's up for it). So I'm pretty free to choose either or when it comes to games and scales.

@ ubercommando – Thanks for the advice. I'm considering getting the Open Fire boxed set and the full hard cover rule book. Start with the Open Fire rule book and then move on to the main rules as and when needed.

Is it known whether the Flames of War artillery template is more popular in imperial or metric measurements? Or put another way, what are the pros and cons of using either?

Also, why is there a square one and a double width wider one?

Thanks all

I've got a few questions before I start painting

When painting plastic figures that need assembly, do I glue all bits together first and then paint?

It was suggested I wash the figures in a water and detergent mix before applying paint. Which detergent should I use?

Which overcoat should I use to protect the paint?

Thanks all

Glue figures before painting. Use washing up liquid to clean them. Good luck!

For my 15mm plastics. I assemble and then prime with Krylon Ultra-Flat black spray paint. I don't bother to wash them before painting but they hold up just fine. Certainly there's no harm in washing them though.

Welcome to historical wargaming. I hope Flames of War provides you as much fun and execellent WW2 gaming as it has for me over the years.

Thanks all

Would you recommend a magnifying glass for painting 15mm figures? If so, any in particular?

I use a lighted magnifying glass mounted on a swivel arm. I only started doing that in the past year or so but my eyes need it now.

Thanks VonBurge

Imperial or metric templates? If everyone where you play uses metric then get that one, if they use imperial get that one. The Metric one is slightly smaller than the Imperial one but not enough to make any difference in most games anyway.

When you get the full FOW rules you will see that bombardments with 6 or more guns can use a double width template and even more guns may get to use a double width and depth template! The larger templates sold by BF have markings so they can be used for the smaller bombardments as well.

Thanks for clarifying Leadgend

@Sparky: Just buy the double-width template, since it's marked for the 6" square bombardment in the middle, and only needs to be flipped once for the "LP of doom" attack.

@Lion

Thanks for the advice