"Why I'm playing AOS with my classic Warhammer minis" Topic

As I've posted previously, I am and still remain a fan of GW's games and their miniatures. I really like the simplicity of AOS and its ease of play for new people becoming familiar with fantasy gaming's mechanics.

I essentially kept all my 7th and 8th edition armies intact and am now simply using them for AOS, with their original square bases. Scenery and everything else, nothing needs to change really, you can still play your games in the classic Old Worlde setting, nobody stopping you.

However, I have not invested a single dollar in any of their AOS mini releases and never will. Beyond having no interest in starting a whole new investment in a whole new collection, seeing what they've done with their pricing is obscene even for their standards.

Looking at their website, they are the ONLY mini company that I know that bundles mini sets together with absolutely no discount for the bundle. You buy the sets separately it's the same exact price. Only difference with a bundle is that it's one click convenience.

Just can't believe with their current prices that they can't even shave off 10 or 15% from a bundle's price. And their individual sets are so off the charts any way, it seems they are catering to mom and dads who can throw 3 or 4 thousand "startup" dollars at a new game. I mean that's insane.

This particular product line below really irks me. Their whole "Start collecting!" range is hilarious because now you're getting about a third of the minis for the same price as what they charged for the battalion boxed sets that had three times as many minis. $85 USD and your getting 18, EIGHTEEN f'n orcs instead of the old 50 or 60 for about $100. USD EIGHTEEN orcs for $85. USD Really? And they're not new special characters either, those orc minis are pulled straight from their 8th edition ranges. It's also a bit strange how you can still get all of the old 8th edition minis, some have been taken down, but there's still a lot of stock, and it would make WAAAY more sense to buy a bunch of 8th edition stuff for a lot cheaper and use that to play AOS. This whole "start collecting" nonsense is just a grocery story shrinking the packaging while charging the same and smiling at you enthusiastically to swallow it and not notice it.

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Bundles like this one below are just facepalm. They're telling me that each mounted guy is worth $100 USD each and that the rest of the foot infantry is worth SIX, SIX hundred dollars??? $1,000 USD for 94 miniatures. They've lost all shame, and that just rankles me.

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I agree with the first part. AoS is a heap better than *most* editions of WHFB. Still like 2nd, 3rd, and 6th though I do not play them often.

As for the second part…if they can find enough folks willing to pay those prices then good on them.

Have hardly bought anything from them since the early 90's and there are so many other things to spend on.

I really like Altertnative Armies recent re-releases of vintage figures.

"Why I'm playing AOS with my classic Warhammer minis"

Why not?

A while back someone pointed out that GW listed a "bundle" on their web store that actually cost MORE than buying the items individually.

I've always been puzzled by the bundle deals. They are exactly the same price and I'm not sure what the purpose of them is. Is it that hard to put 2 in the quantity box if you want to buy 2 Magmadroths or whatever they are.

Even if it was $210 USD for two of them instead of $220 USD it would be something.

However I am going to disagree with you on the starter sets.

Those are a great deal. The Orc starter set does seem to be the worst one of the bunch.

Look at the Seraphon one. You get nearly a boxed set worth of Lizardmen infantry, a boxed set of cavalry and a Carnosaur with a hero on it for $85. USD

Sure it is only 21 models but one of them is a freaking Carnosaur.

The Nurgle one is a boxed set of plague bearers, a boxed set of plague drones and a boxed set of nurglings plus a herald of Nurgle for $85. USD

Bought alone that would be $29 USD+$66+$25+$25 = $145 USD or a $60 USD discount.

I think you typically save about this much when buying the start collecting sets.

Depending on the set, for Age of Sigmar, you might only need two of these sets to have a decent army with maybe one or two other boxed sets for some flavour.

For example if you wanted to do a nurgle army you could buy the chaos warriors set, the nurgle demon set and a Nurgle lord, demon prince or greater demon and have a pretty good AoS army for about $200. USD

For Seraphon if you bought the two starter sets, a set of skinks and one other set, like Kroxigors or pterradons for $250 USD you would have a pretty good Seraphon army. You'd have three units of infantry, two units of cavalry, one special unit, a leader on a monster and another monster.

As for AoS in general, except for the Stormcast Eternals* the pricing doesn't seem to be too much worse than normal for GW.

I've bought a bunch of the Chaos stuff, some of which has actually dropped a little bit in price with the new boxing.

Other than that I've just gone with two starter sets which are incredibly good deals.

*The Stormcast Eternals a la carte are one of the most expensive armies out there. Tough, and you don't need too many of them, but even the base guys are $10 USD each retail.

However, if you collect both Khorne and Sigmarites, or have a friend to split the two armies with, buying the boxed set makes these two armies stupidly cheap.

Even if you are paying retail for the boxed set(and some people have reported their FLGS selling it for $35 USD here and you should be paying at most about $100 USD for it anywhere) you still get an almost complete army for each for $250. USD

My Storm cast army is two boxed sets, a knight venator and two boxes of Judicators. I think I got the first boxed set when it was released for 20% off and got a second boxed set for $65. USD The Judicators were $40 USD a boxed set each and the Knight venator was the same. So total on my Stormcast army, which is pretty much complete as far as I'm concerned, you have ($106 + $65 USD)/2 + $120 USD = $205.50 USD.

That isn't bad for an army and in it I have, with a single converted model:

1 Lord Celestant on Dracoth
1 Lord Castellant
1 Knight Venator
1 Lord Relictor
20 Liberators
10 Judicators
6 Prosecutors
5 Palladins

45 models total. And these are big models, not normal human sized guys. Plus an extra Lord Relictor and Lord Celestant which I'm not sure what to do with yet, although I'll probably convert the Dracoth into some type of Nurgle monster.

I stopped buying GW when they started releasing ugly plastic kits (I think this was around 2000 or so), so I can't comment too much about buying GW models nowadays. I will say 18 Orcs for $85 USD comes out to just under $5 USD a model, which is about what the nice old metal sculpts go for on eBay these days. Now I wouldn't spend that on GW models that were sculpted after 1997 or so (if the Orc is not grinning, I won't buy it! Old GW really had a great sense of levity and humour to it, especially with the great old cartoony art). But I have spent that much on an old metal model before, particularly if it is hard to find. I suspect GW is basing it's prices partially on this: how much resellers can get for models on eBay.

That being said, I also only play GW games from 1995 and earlier, so you don't NEED that many models to play. Last game of Newhammer I saw (a year or two ago… Maybe "8th" edition?), the armies were enormous and would drive me broke pretty quickly (and who has time to paint all those models anyway?). If AoS changed this, and you need significantly fewer models to play, then $5 USD a model might not be too unreasonable. Of course, it is GW, so you can be sure that as the game evolves the number of models required to play will steadily creep higher and higher.

Anyway, I think Newhammer players are spoiled to a large extent. In the early 2000's you had kits of 30 plastic models for $30. USD In the 90's, you had to buy individual metal models which were quite expensive… $1 USD a model is the aberration in GW history, NOT the norm. Granted metal models are a lot cooler than plastic ones, but as game-pieces $5 USD a model is not weird or unusual.

Don't forget that the 18 models includes 6 cavalry and a chariot. So it is 17 models and a chariot.

We are switching from AOS to Kings of War. We liked many features of AOS but missed the tactical feel of coherent unit formations and of being able to scale bigger. Easier on the pocketbook too.

But good on you. AOS has some nice design elements.

I have been looking at 40k models lately for finishing off a 5150 project long left abandoned. The price on the Dark Vengeance expansion sets didn't look too bad. The Chaos Marines set is something like $135 USD for a Land Raider, 5 Terminators, 5 Warp Talons, and 5 Cultists. $76 USD + $50 USD + $35 USD + $10 USD = $171. USD Discounted to pretty much get the Warp Talons for free.

Can't ever agree that somehow AoS is better than any edition of WHFB. As bad as you might think WHFB was, AoS is just heads and shoulders worse. And GW's pricing scheme is tripling down on the trends they have been going through for the past decade or more.

Damon.

I can't stop laughing…….

@Pictors Studio,

You make good points about the AOS starter sets. That is one thing about GW that is a fortunate but weird paradox.

I totally agree about the AOS starter set. That is actually an excellent value. The reason I didn't buy that is because I don't really like aesthetics of the new minis.

But you are absolutely right, what you get in the starter set for $125 USD is an awesome deal. Plus there are a ton of AOS brand new starter sets on Ebay for as little as $75 USD! For $150 USD you can get nearly 100 minis.

So with GW it's kind of like great value is always followed up with ever-increasing insane pricing.

I know people have often criticized GW's starter boxes for Warhammer 6th, 7th, and 8th over the years. But I always thought those boxed sets were great deals. You got two starter armies, some terrain, the full-size rule book, and dice and rulers for like $80. USD GW didn't always have the level of insane pricing they have with their newest stuff. Granted, you did have to buy some minis to supplement the old starter sets, but you still got a ton of stuff with the starters. I even remember a couple editions even included some buildings and terrain in their starter sets.

But you are right, you can get into AOS reasonably if you buy a couple of the AOS basic starter boxes, you end up with nearly 100 minis between the stormcasts and chaos. Can't argue against that!

I guess it comes down to the idea that if you just get the starter sets and maybe a couple of the smaller boxed sets, you do get two pretty decent-sized forces for only a couple hundred dollars.

My main complaint with GW is with the very latest releases, GW just took their pricing and pushed it too far.

But I still think they make the best fantasy miniatures out there. I'm glad I've got my classic armies.

I just did some conversion work today on my starter set and made the second Blood secretary into a Skullgrinder with bits from my Skullreaper boxed set and turned the Khorgoth Kul model into a Chaos lord casualty figure. So even the characters aren't a waste.

Now I need to figure out how to make thet Khorgoroth into something cool looking.

Actually if you got the starter set and the Khorne daemon Get Started! set you would have a really good Khorne army with enough mortal and daemon stuff that you probably wouldn't need to get anything else at all, although probably a few more blood warriors would be very useful.

I don't really like the new Dwarfs, but then I don't really like Dwarfs in general.

[Might 'need' a Chaos Spawn for the bad-things-can-happen table.] But actually a pretty good deal. Was very skeptical about the whole thing but have actually really enjoyed the hardcover book.
With two box sets completing a Khorne force, A Plague force and rounding out the Stormcast is actually pretty reasonable use of gaming dollars if collected over time. Would give unlimited fun narrative gaming -especially if you have older GW armies on hand.
I have noticed while my historical forces lead and plastic mound gets larger or longer to the table – I actually finish painting GW stuff for some weird reason.

Yeah, I was in a historical slump for a while there too. I had a bunch of projects that were complete enough to play games and was trying to expand them, so go from 16 man units to 24 man units or similar. I just wasn't getting it done.

This comes out in July of last year and I've been digging out old badly painted models and repainting them, painting new stuff from several different companies and all kinds of GW stuff itself. Since July I've painted close to 200 GW models for myself.

GW can only continue to make a profit if they sell at these prices.

I am just waiting for the next Earnings Report from GW.

There are very few individuals today who can just go out and pay for those army bundles or even one box set.

Most individuals today just do not have $2,000 USD to throw away.

But you can make an AoS army for less than $200 USD retail.

That is probably one reason why they made the switch to AoS.

So I guess you applaud that move as it makes gaming cheaper?

Been out of it way too long…I remember back when you could do a full army for around $100 USD US. Current prices are WAY out of line and just plain abusive. I am starting to pull out my older armies and discontinued games and refurbishing a few of them. Might get back into Warmaster or BFG if I can find someone to play. Have 0 desire to ever get back into their new games though.

Of course if you are remembering back to about 1995 that $100 USD would be about $155 USD now and you could do a full AoS army for that now.

Then why are they putting out those bundles?

Also 20 some figures does not make an Army.

I think what Pictors is saying is that GW still offers good value if you know how to shop with them. I don't think he or I are disagreeing that some of their newest pricing is insane, it most certainly is. I am totally priced out of pretty much every release that came out after the initial starter sets with the Stormcast Eternals/Chaos box.

The thing that's tricky here is that it depends on what YOU want out of GW's minis, and what you intend to do with them, and to what scale and scope.

Obviously, if you are new to AOS and you have your heart set on building a full army out of their latest Fire Dwarves releases, you're looking at a couple grand to get a decent-sized force, not much argument there.

No doubt their chaos fortress terrain's prices are seriously high, just a wall section runs about $75. USD Any of the full fortress sets are $300 USD and up depending on size.

So it's no secret that GW IS expensive and with the release of AOS got even more expensive.

However, as Pictors has pointed out, that first starter set that GW released last July on the big launch day is an EXCELLENT value. And you're still getting the same high level of detail that you would get if you bought those figures in separate packs. As I pointed out, Ebay now has a glut of AOS starter boxes for as little as $75 USD INCLUDING shipping! That's insanely cheap for what's in the box. You buy two of those sets and you've got 100 hero-sized 28mm minis for about $150. USD It would be hard to say that that's a bad deal.

Now, when we get into things like the Stormcast expansion sets, well ok, that's where GW really begins to show that they're charging money for what they consider to be the best miniatures in the world with the best detail and most advanced mold technology available. So you get a five-figure set for $58. USD

However, if you've already bought a couple the starter sets off Ebay at a discount, you could buy one of the expansion sets to get some of the specialist troops like the Ajudicators(archers), and for a total of about $200 USD you've got two huge forces of good and evil.

I believe unless I'm mistaken that this is essentially what Pictors did when building up his AOS forces, which is just about the wisest way to do it and still not spend a fortune.

My main frustration with GW isn't with their general pricing of their 8th edition stuff and earlier. I know people will disagree with me, but I don't think that 8th Edition mini prices were all that bad, especially not for the battalion boxes and regimental boxes. Their plastics had gotten so good by the time of 8th that you could get a REALLY high-quality field army for just a couple hundred dollars, but ONLY if you combined buying a starter set with some supplemental regimental boxes.

I didn't start to become annoyed with GW's prices until they began to charge $50 USD for just ten plastic minis, which most often are their regiments from the Specials and Rares in the army books. The Dwarf Hammerers and Ironbreakers come to mind. At that point, I felt that they had crossed a line that was tangible and really irked customers, even dedicated GW gamers, and it really wrankled me to think that in order to field just 20 plastic Dwarf Hammerers I would have to pay $100. USD I feel that is simply too much money for not enough product. For $100 USD U.S. dollars I feel that you should be getting about 40 Hammerers, it just FEELS right for the ratio. And of course if you went and looked at plastic boxed sets from other miniature companies, you would almost always find that you were getting twice the minis for the same price that GW was charging. Again, that magic ratio. A competitor would give you 20 or 25 plastic minis in a regimental set for $50 USD, but GW stuck to their guns and only gave you 10. That's pushing it.

But again, it's all a matter of how you approach it. Buy a couple of the 8th or 7th edition starter sets, and you've got plenty of minis for two full-sized forces for just a couple hundred dollars, and being all plastic you can modify them any way you want to make character and general models, etc, so you don't necessarily have to go back and pay GW's prices of $30 USD per hero mini if you buy specific character models.

It is doable, and now with Ebay offering so many GW products on the secondary market, often times being completely new for significant discounts, it's given gamers even more ways to use their money effectively and get plenty of minis for their armies.

I guess I made this particular thread just to say that I have genuine sticker shock when it comes to GW's very, very latest stuff, stuff since last July. It's GW prices on steroids. Which is too bad because I would have possibly gotten some of the newest dwarf range, but I just can't justify the amount of money for the small amount of product you get in return. Just too expensive.

I also love the chaos fortress terrain range, but again they're just too darn expensive. I do think however that their other AOS terrain pieces are decently priced. Their Baleful Realmgates are an awesome model for the price of $58 USD, and I think that their Numinous Occulum for $60 USD is a pretty decent price for that piece. You pay that much and more for comparable resin terrain kits from other miniatures companies.