Help support TMP


"Norman - Pueri?" Topic


9 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please don't call someone a Nazi unless they really are a Nazi.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Dark Ages Message Board


Areas of Interest

Medieval

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Top-Rated Ruleset

To The Strongest!


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

Fighting 15's Teutonic Order Command 1410

Command figures for the 1410 Teutonics.


Featured Workbench Article

Homemade Palm Trees

Dervel Fezian returns from Mexico with a new vision for making palm trees from scratch.


Featured Profile Article

Editor Julia's 2015 Christmas Project

Editor Julia would like your support for a special project.


Current Poll


1,265 hits since 23 Jan 2016
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

skipper John23 Jan 2016 10:32 a.m. PST

The Gripping Beast packs have a mounted, unarmored rider with a round shield and Javelins. Who the heck are these guys? I thought Normans were chainmail, armored Knights with lance.

auction

Not mine but a photo of said Pueri.

Wardlaw23 Jan 2016 10:46 a.m. PST

Pueri means 'boys', and is often used in wargames' army lists to create units of lightly armoured skirmish cavalry.

Frankly, there is no evidence for this kind of distinctive unit; the organisation of the Norman army was by households, with younger and more experienced warriors fighting side-by-side, the wealthier/more noble tending to be better equipped. The more lightly equipped troops fought in the same way in the same units.

Lances could thrust overarm as well as couched, or even thrown; the weapon was just a longer spear in this period, after all.

Bellbottom23 Jan 2016 11:39 a.m. PST

On the other hand they would do for Bretons

French Wargame Holidays23 Jan 2016 2:21 p.m. PST

There are number in the bayuex tapestry, includes light javelin armed and horse archers

Druzhina23 Jan 2016 10:27 p.m. PST
skipper John24 Jan 2016 12:50 p.m. PST

Thank you all. A couple of them mixed in and in the rear of the unit then. Perfect!

Lewisgunner31 Jan 2016 11:23 a.m. PST

Wardlaw might hot have it right. On the Bayeux Tapestry there is a panel where Bishop Odo 'encourages the Pueri ' Now if these boys are not an identifiable unit, but instead are distrbuted fairly evenly through the army tgen he could not just encourage the pueri, but would have to be encouraging the milites of one of the units , knights, cavaliers and pueri. The best sense is that there s indeed a unit or more of pueri,nthat they are probably in the second line, are discouraged by the retreat of the frst line and that Odo goes over and steadies them, to hold them in place.

Of course Pueri and the similar Iucenes can also be used as a description of a leaders group of lads . These are young men who live at tge court of a noble and follow a milutary career, giving him a permanent force of young warriors ready for action well before his tenants and their retainers culd arrive. However, n the case of the Pueri or iuvenes on the tapestry there would be lots of them, but attached to each lord that was present.nMaybe the Pueri/ Iuvenes on the Tapestry are a group of youths attached to the forces of Duke William hinself.

Druzhina31 Jan 2016 8:59 p.m. PST

Scene 54 on the Bayeux_Tapestry has HIC ODO EPISCOPVS BACVLVM TENENS CONFORTAT PVEROS ('Here Bishop Odo, holding a club, gives strength to the boys' or 'Here Bishop Odo with a staff in his hand encourages his squires')
The bishop seems to be encouraging the soldiers (as opposed to the leaders). Compare that "infantry" is from a word meaning children. I don't think the Bayeux Tapestry is enough evidence to add to a theory that Pueri is any special type of troop (there are no unarmoured Normans in this scene), it would have to be from other sources.

Is there a source to support the small round shields on the Gripping Beast figures?

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Lewisgunner01 Feb 2016 8:28 a.m. PST

Well the tapestry's representation of troop types is hardly systematic, Where for instance, are the infantry spearmen mentioned in the sources?
So I would not expect pueri to be represented in exact costume and kit, even if they wore something dstinctive, though I doubt that they did.
What I do find plausible is that the pueri represent a separate body .
William must have some substructure to his army. His main subdivisions will have been centre and two wings, with their appropriate leaders, within that there will have been nobles and captains leading their contingents. However, William himself will have had enough men in his personal following to have several units, one or more of which could indeed be the Pueri. Whether you choose to represent them as Nirman Milutes or in some lesser gegree of kit is an artistic choice.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.