"Will ‘Free State of Jones’ change any popular notions of ..." Topic

…the Civil War?.

"It'll be interesting to see if this movie has any effect on popular notions of the Civil War, the South, and the Confederacy. People have a tendency to equate the "Civil War South" with the Confederacy. Using "the South" as shorthand for "the Confederacy" in the context of the Civil War is something we all do from time to time, but it's important to remind ourselves that the two weren't synonymous.

The Civil War divided Southerners just as it divided the nation as a whole. This wasn't just true in the sense that some states in the South never seceded; it was also true of many people living within Confederate territory. For many Southerners faced with conscription, shortages, home guards, and requisitions of goods, the idea of rallying around the Confederate flag became more and more distasteful as the war dragged on. And, of course, some Southerners in Confederate-held territory were never crazy about secession to begin with, as was the case for many people here in East Tennessee.

It's also noteworthy to see a movie depicting blacks and whites engaged in anti-Confederate resistance. The point here is not to fashion some myth of interracial amity in the nineteenth-century South. The point, rather, is to consider black Southerners as Southerners—in other words, as real people with some degree of agency living in the South, rather than an inert mass simply awaiting the war's outcome. In other words, when we speak of a divided Civil War South, it's easy to forget that white Southerners weren't the only potential source of anti-Confederate dissent within the region…"

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Amicalement
Armand

Your average American cretin will say that they had no idea Matthew McConaughey was a veteran, let alone a veteran of the civil war. Since he abandoned the Confederate cause, it is okay to continue to like him and support his work. Someone from casting for Oprah or The View will ask him to come and speak about his experiences during the war. They will also ask him to weigh in on the Confederate Flag issue.

and then he will take his shirt off

All right all right all right

No – because no one is going to see it.

It's got a battle scene. I'll see it.

At the moment the Confederacy isn't too popular, so something that shows Southerners standing up to the Confederacy may work.

In Alabama residents of the Free State of Winston have long ignored or denied the fact that ancestors fought for the Union. In State over 1/4 PC Alabama soldiers fought for the Union. Now with natural breeding patterns, it is estimated that between 1/2 & 2/3 of every Alabamian fought for the union. It is not hard to research but most refuse to take the risk.
I had them fight on both sides.

The vastly over-looked problem was/is that Jones County was extremely anti-government before, during, and after the Civil War, and remained such well into the 20th Century!

Somehow I doubt those facts will be vastly uncovered in the film!

Right after the war, before the Reconstruction state government began functioning, the state changed the county name to "Davis." Shortly after the Reconstruction state government began functioning, the name was restored to Jones, which it has been since.

Jim

Large numbers of Southern men fought for the Union. I believe, without checking my sources, over 100,000.

This has been overlooked because of the power of the Lost Cause. The Lost Cause pushes that ALL white men fought in the South to protect their homes and rights ect. This rings hollow if large numbers of Southerners actually for their country-The Union.

Yes, Inkpaduta, the dissension and resistance of large numbers of southerners is NEVER brought up among Neo-Confederates/lost causers because it does not fit their (fictional) narrative. Ask them about "black Confederates" though and get ready for pages and pages of minutae on pension records and army rosters…

As to the OP, I will see the movie.

I frequently talk about Southern Unionists when I do living histories (full disclosure – I wear blue). Almost 200,000 white southerners fought for the Union; 30,000 from Tennessee alone.

I don't know if a movie will prove to be a revelation to the masses who have been taught all along about the "solid south", but it might get one or two people to look into it and actually learn about the War. It was plenty complex.

I am curious Paul and Mark which Lost Cause/Neo Confederates you are referring to. Just about every history that goes beyond the high points of the war, regardless of orientation, acknowledges the existence of Unionist sentiments in parts of the South. That is starting from Pollard going forward. There isn't an in depth discussion of it, but you don't see that much discussion about antiwar sentiment in the north either.

Well, in all my studies on the Lost Cause the issue of Southerners fighting for the North is downplayed. In my discussions with Lost Causers they will stress the unity of the South because everyone was fighting for their home and rights. Thus slavery was not the real issue.

I am not talking about scholarly studies of the war. I am talking about the primary material, groups and individuals that created the Lost Cause myth.

One can go to Eastern Tennessee, and major area of Unionism, and all one sees are Confederate flags. As one example.

I would even make the case that Northern dissent over the war plays a role in the Lost Cause as well. They is always this belief that one good blow and the North would fold because of the antiwar feelings. Thus the whole Lost Cause belief that if the South had won Gettysburg they would somehow won the war. So I think the antiwar issues for the North are much better known then the antiwar and Pro-Unionism in the South today.

Bill there is this:

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Look at the suggested books as well, an interesting reading list I am sure.

I have not read the book and I am very well aware of the political nuances of the Civil War so I am sure there is some factual element to the book. But ask yourself, who is the audience for this book? I don't think it is folks who understand and study history…

But I think Ink said it well, we are talking primarily about the average white southerner who extolls the virtue of their confederate ancestors when in fact many of their forefathers probably fought for the Union. BTW, I am a southerner whose ancestors fought for the Union.

Edit: Try googling "black confederates" as well…but hold on to your hat!

Opinions are not fixed. Nor are they simple. What is at play here are opinions and sentiments. When I was doing my Masters thesis, which was on the Renaissance, I wrote about the Swiss, and how all of the "myths" or "stories" like William Tell, and the slogans and justifications the Swiss used dated from AFTER the time they had achieved independence from the Hapsburgs and fought off Charles the Bold. That is, as justifications for their revolt. After that these opinions and fables solidified and multiplied.

It is the same in any society. Opinion begins as conflicting, diffuse, and of all stripes and as time advances there is more and more tendency to "homogenize" the fellings as time goes on. Some people favor one way, some a diametrically opposed course, and some people do things for the most incidental and happenstance reasons, but later the tendency toward "uniformity" begins. Doris Kearns Goodwin's "Team of Rivals" serendipitously documents this trend among members of Lincoln's cabinet in he evaluation of Lincoln. Another author whose name I cannot remember nor even the title of the book, but I have it around her somewhere, deals with the change in estimations of Lincoln among Northerners AND southernors and the picture of the "Lost Cause" in their memory after the war.

This makes people neither feeble minded or sinister, or stupid, only human. Few of us involve ourselves with the ontological principle on a moment to moment basis, and most of us in all times and places are so busy in the act of survival that we often do not take into account what we think about this and that. Quite frequently we go off like a rocket in some direction through trivial reasons. This just happened to me. I was interrupted in my discourse on this thread by a phone call which was a phone survey (computerized) for some product, which because of the interruption I now have an unreasoning animus against, and so it will accrete like a pearl, more substance as time goes on.

As I said, it does not make people evil, invidious, insidious, nasty, or jejune. It simply makes them human.

I wonder, as I here, in New Jersey, see confederate flag decals on trucks and bumper stickers if they really are dyed in the wool rebels or if they just don't like blacks, or if they emphasize with the spirit of rebellion of very put upon people against a government they see doing the putting-upon etc. Certainly if you attribute their ubiquity to real sentiment then you would think that New Jersey was one of the "secessionist" states. You can't attribute ANY of those motives to the placing of the flag with absolute certainty.

Finally, if I cam up to anyone and started saying horrible things about their great grandpa because he was in he Southern army or the German Army of WW I or WWII it would be the height of presumption as I didn't know their Grandpa. So much of this is also about honoring the dead, and not necessarily a hankering ater evil.

I would recommend Freehling's The South Versus the South for a thorough exploration of the subject.