"Vallejo/Foundry 2015, there is NO excuse!" Topic

The title of this post might have been a bit confusing, I apologize for that.

This is actually a praise for Vallejo and Foundry paints, with just a short rant I'm sure has been heard too many times already…

…nevertheless, I'm just sharing an experience here that reinforces faith in one thing while doubling my criticism of another thing. In late 2012 I bought Vallejo's full set of Game Color paints, comes in the plastic suitcase. Also bought the full basic palette of Foundry paints. I also purchased Games Workshop's basic palette.

I intended to begin building and painting minis right away, but due to pereonal circumstances I ended up not being able to do any actual miniature work until just this month, a full three years later. All three paint sets had been carefully packed away for the three years, and none of the paints had ever being opened.

The Vallejo set had SOME(sparse) separation of the liquid from pigment, but were absolutely fresh and could be stirred easily and had lost NO volume of paint.

The Foundry set was in a complete time warp. The paint was in the same condition as the day I bought it. Wasn't even separated three years later. A light shake to each one and back in business.

The third set, the most expensive one, Games Workshop – had nearly all suffered serious separation, many pigments had become thickened and were gumming almost to the point of not being mixable. The metallics were all close to being beyond saving. Many of the Layer range were close to losing over half their moisture. Maybe a third of the paints had lost measurable volume to evaporation. If I had waited any longer the entire GW set would have been ready for the garbage, I saved it JUST in time. And these were GW's 2013 sealed pots with their latest design. It took about four hours of work to rescue GW's paints. I had to add distilled water and alcohol to nearly all of them, and also had to resort to putting ball bearings in each pot to agitate them enough to save them from disaster.

It's 2015. We can text someone in China. We can put people in orbit. We can access information instantly.

Paint pot technology should not even be a f'n discussion. Air-tight containers should not be a f'n what-if! I have $1.00 USD craft paints from Walmart that are still fresh after three years! We've all heard 1,000 rants about GW, I realize that. But this one just irks me above all. $450 USD paint set and it's put in paint-by-number containers. There is NO excuse.

I agree. This is a tech problem that has long been solved.

You almost have to wonder if the pots are designed to dry out, separate and (with use) clog up deliberately so that you have to replace more frequently. I really dislike GW paint pots.

Thank you for posting this review. This is very helpful information.

I find GW paints to be like most other companies paints, some are better than others. I just found a dried out Glittering Gold yesterday that I tossed.

I have plenty of Vallejo paints that require so much shaking to use them it is practically a project of its own.

Even some of my Cel-Vinyl paints separate after 6 months or so, especially the yellows.

Craft paints usually don't do this for some reason, but then they don't have the coverage in many cases too. Although some do cover as well as the more expensive brands.

The morale of the story, after 20 years of painting, most of it full time, is that you have to mix and match brands. I like Cel-Vinyl best of all but wouldn't go without my GW Caliban Green or without my Delta Ceramcoat medium flesh and Trail Tan. Similarly being without Vallejo Stone grey would be a tough road too.

I probably get a lot more use out of the average paint than most. I run GW pots to the bottom regularly.

"You almost have to wonder if the pots are designed to dry out, separate and (with use) clog up deliberately so that you have to replace more frequently."

It is always a possibility.

Kind of like food companies changing the volume in a box of cereal or other food but keeping the container the same size and price.

Unopened paints stored in a temperate location should be fine. If they had previously been opened I would say all bets are off.

I really appreciate all the feedback!

I should have learned my lesson from way back, I had used Foundry and Vallejo back in 2007 and remember both of them being practically immune from drying out, the quality of their pots are just top-notch.

Vallejo uses the same kind of screw top and pot design that Reaper paints use unless I'm mistaken. Vallejo like Reaper also have the double seal of having that interior eye-dropper piece that snug-fits into the hole, as well as the outer screw-cover, you can't beat that kind of double-layer protection.

Foundry paints are in the same type of containers that Coat D'Arms paints use, and ironically, the Foundry/Coat D'Arms pots are the exact same kind that Games Workshop originally used back in the 1980s! The 1980s! Effective paint pot seals had been figured out during the Dungeons & Dragons era, and GW was using them! I remember GW paints from that time period lasting five-seven+ years even after being opened. I have a friend who still has some of the vintage GW paint colors in the old GW pots from the 80s, and believe it or not he can still paint minis with them. Interesting thing about Foundry is that the pot is a snap-close top, but it closes MUCH tighter than GW's new pots do. You really have to press to get a Foundry pot to close. With GW's you press gently and it never feels like a tight close.

Really should have just not even bothered with GW's paints this time around. Not worth the trouble of all the babysitting you have to do to them. Can't go wrong with Vallejo or Foundry, and Foundry has the awesome tri-color system for shading and highlighting.

The current GW pots are criminally designed to waste half the paint and cost 4 times as much for a third as much paint.
The only reason I use it is because one of their Browns with a stupid name is a perfect musket color.

Coat D'Arms were the originally manufacturer of GW paint hence why the really old GW paints were in proper pots. Paints separate for a number of reasons so separation is not unusual so its not a concern to me that's what shaking is for.

I don't have any Foundry paints but I have Vallejo Model Color paints that are 10+ years old and Reapers that are probably approaching that as well that still get the job done. The pots for P3s seem to be pretty good as well, I haven't found any that have dried up on me.

I used a bottle of Vallejo model color last night that was probably over 15years old. Had to agitate the heck out of it though!

Damon.

Forgive me for asking but why have you bought so much paint in the first place?

@Timmo uk,

That was just a personal decision I made. At the same time I bought all the paint I was getting back into Warhammer and had purchased enough minis to build about five armies. I just wanted to have all the ranges of paints so I could compare colors and compare how they performed in different applications.

There are also certain colors I like in the Vallejo range that you can't get in the Foundry and Citadel range and vice-versa.

It was overkill I admit, but now I have pretty much all the paint I'll ever need for miniature wargames! All I need to do now is just invest in the occasional special color I might need for a particular miniature.

I have some very useable Vallejo paint that was stored in a hot attic for over 5 years. I was very pleasantly surprised when I found them and saw they were still good.

And I've also tossed the latest incarnation of GW paints stored in a cool, dark closet for 3 months that were totally dried out.

This may be a "planned obsolescence" tactic from GW, but it backfired with me. I'm done with them.

Ah I see and understand.

This is probably the hardest part of the hobby for me. My OCD would like me to stick to one brand, all neatly aligned, all the same. Can't happen. To get the color, mix, and properties I need takes 4 brands. Mostly Reaper, but some Vallejo, GW, and craft paints. Oh well. Haven't tried foundry, though.

I can't add much to what the others have said other than.

I just took out the only Citadel colours I have ever bought from the late 80's, I think. Elf Flesh, Chainmail and Flesh wash. I use these colours regularly but they are on the last drops in some cases. The tops don't even fit properly anymore but the paint is still fine.

I've got some very old Vallejo – probably 7-8 years old at this point. They all seem to perform well with some shaking and glass beads in the bottles. I don't get to paint regularly so their use is sporadic, but still functioning. I'm pretty lucky.

Agree with OP on frustration of pots offering less value than desired.

I actually tried storing mine emerged in a container of water with the theory that air could not get into or escape the pots and dry out the paint. Worked to a certain extent.

I've got many foundry paints that are 15 years old now & going strong. My only problem is that the lid rims are breaking off. If I can find replacement lids they may last forever!

With GW's you press gently and it never feels like a tight close.

Have to agree with that. Those lids don't give that little 'snap' to tell you it's closed. GW have some great colours but they get gluggy pretty quickly.

I use mostly Foundry paints these days but find myself regularly scooping out dried paint from the rim of the lid, when it doesn't quite close.

I am still using a number of colors of Ral Partha paints (about 30 years old) they just require more time on the paint shaker. My problem is finding replacements for those "key" colors. Does anyone have a suggestion for a substitute for Ral Partha African? I used the last of it up a few years back and am still looking.

For those paint drying out issues can't you get some decent small screw lid jars or decant into dropper bottles? The old advice for storing paint was to invert the can, bottle, jar.

I have about 20 bottles of Vallejo that used rarely or are spares for the colours I get through the most. About once I month I give them a good shake and turn them for the next month.

If you have lots of older paint it might be worth investing in a shaker to help with the effort of getting them useable again.

Timmo, Reaper sells empty bottles. Fooquil used to sell empty jars. Not sure if they still do.

What you fellows said about transferring is a great idea! Would be some work, but worth it!

Reaper does indeed sell empty bottles. I think Vallejo might as well.

For the amount of money I invested in the GW paint set, I would be willing to transfer those colors into Reaper bottles.

Interesting that you mentioned that, because I just remembered suddenly back in 2007 I did exactly the same with a smaller and different GW set. GW had come out with some set of special colors, the name of the set escapes me now. Might have been for Lord of the Rings, or maybe a special set for something else. Was about 30 colors.

I transferred all of those into empty reaper containers and it worked fabulously.

After reading all of your feedback and experiences, it really comes back to staying with what you know.

For me, Foundry, Vallejo, and Reaper are the top three for me. With those you know that those paints will last and you do not have to worry.

With GW paints there's just too much babysitting required for something so darn expensive. I love their colors but it just isn't right that they put their product in such hideous pots.

This is a tough topic for me, because I have always and still do love Games Workshop's miniatures. My Warhammer armies are 95% GW. And that's because I love the lore of their world and their miniatures, especially plastics are just some of the best I have ever seen. Particularly since 7th Edition, their plastics just got so good.

I even invested in their Realm of Battle Board, which I love. They have just created a great world backed up by great miniatures. Recent events with AOS aside, GW's Old Worlde is still one of my favorite fantasy settings after Middle Earth.

It is a love/hate relationship with them, frustrating that they can achieve such amazing things with miniatures technology but then refuse to put their paints in good pots.

I would not rule out what was said above. They could indeed be doing this intentionally. Their motive could be to simply sell more paint, by making you use paint right away or designing the pots so that it will dry out if you try to store it, also forcing you to buy more.

I cannot imagine someone experiencing the total or partial loss of a set of GW paints and then buying them AGAIN to replace them. That's like asking for punishment. I was naive enough to think that this latest round of pots was GW's way of finally ridding us of the nonsense of having to babysit paints that are nearly $5.00 USD per pot.

So it's GW minis for me, but paint them with paints you know you can trust.