"Team Yankee: bungled release?" Topic

Ok, so after picking up Potecknovs Bears I start thinking about painting.

I could try the TY paints: nope, preorder for February.

Well, maybe I could build my BMP recon unit: nope, out of stock and backordered.

For a new game, it seems remarkably difficult to actually buy stuff for it.

I'll give it a pass on the staggered release, but the price point in Australia for this is horrid. I've seen the A10 box on pre order for aud $79. USD For two 1/144 planes…

I can save a third off AU retail by ordering from Caliver in the UK. I really wanted to support flgs here, but I can't justify those prices.

Go 1/285th. For $79 USD you can buy a whole lot more.

I second paulgenna's comment. I am going to tryout Team Yankee using 1/285 from GHQ.

I'm still waiting for the book to ship from Miniaturemarket. I had a bunch of points to cash in, so I'm getting the book essentially for free. They still have it for preorder, and it seems like The War Store has it ready to ship…

Damon.

"For a new game, it seems remarkably difficult to actually buy stuff for it."

There are loads of suppliers other than BF for Cold War kit.

How is this different from most releases from anyone other than GW? Nobody but them can actually afford to release a complete range at once.

Everyone else does staggered release and between print runs core components can be out of stock for weeks to months. I'm currently into FFGs Star Wars Armada and the basic fighter packs recently went out of stock.

And branded paint ranges are a pure luxury items. Every model paint range has all the colors you need to paint Cold War armor.

It does seem like supply is a big problem. Of course you can shop their competitors – QRF, Old Glory et. al. but they are really hurting themselves by dampening enthusiasm…

The thing is how many "hard core" 15mm guys are there for moderns outside of the FOW fan base? A lot of folks like 1/285 specifically because it gets the ranges looking "right".
This isn't meant to be an attack on Battlefront or the Flames of War community, but rather a chance to point out the idea of "think outside the box" guys.

Not really, it seems that TY is aimed at Tanks, tanks and Tanks! In which case it is as planned, the book is nice, and there is plenty of info and models in all scales out there to build forces from other nations and other kit,

Tally Ho!

A lot of people are looking "outside of the box" for TY. We are filling tons of orders that look like they came directly out of the TY book. Our M1 Abrams is a top seller again after falling off decades ago- until recently everyone has wanted the newer variants. Many of these new customers are actually including notes that say that they are using our miniatures with TY. Many people have been using GHQ miniatures with FoW for years- some have even said that they wish that they would have started with our miniatures, but they already have a lot of money into 15's for FoW.

GHQ has everything needed for TY, and it is available now. In addition, we have everything that you will need for additional US and Russian units, as well as everything that you need for UK, French, German, Dutch, Canadians, Israelis, etc. You can order any of those things now, get them shipped out now. Don't forget about the cost comparison- 5 M1 Abrams are $11.95 USD, 5 T-72's are $11.95 USD, 5 BMP-1's are $11.95 USD, 2 Cobra's are $11.95 USD, 5 M-113's are $11.95 USD…

We are just trying to present a low-cost, high-quality alternative for playing TY. A lot of people have been posting photos of 1/285th scale TY games on Forums, Bulletin Boards, Facebook pages, etc. You may want to check them out.

Thank you for your support,
GHQ

The thing is how many "hard core" 15mm guys are there for moderns outside of the FOW fan base? A lot of folks like 1/285 specifically because it gets the ranges looking "right".
This isn't meant to be an attack on Battlefront or the Flames of War community, but rather a chance to point out the idea of "think outside the box" guys.

I really think BF should have explored a 10mm or maybe even 1:200th scale as a compromise between 1:100 & 1:285th!

I'll primarily be playing Team Yankee with 1:285th Micro Armor despite the fact that I have been one of those "Hard Core" 15mm WW2 FoW customers. This is in part due to the fact that I have a big 1:285th collection already, but even if I had not I am still disappointed to see BF not explore a more reasonable scale for the force types called for by Team Yankee for use on a 4x6 table.

VB

Honestly I don't like 1:285th for painting purposes… too small to get a really kicking paint job unless you're a painting god. 15mm is about as small as you can go and still expect the average guy to get anything remotely resembling shading.

As to the release – it's not "bungled" – it's phased… like every BF release… (as others have said). In order to get a splash release they'd not be able to release ANYTHING new for 3-4 months then drop everything at once.

That being said, BF is moving to a larger facility in Malaysia – so that may mean they're able to have tighter release schedules for new lines.

A number of people make aircraft in 1/144th scale, so A-10s can be easily found, for a much more reasonable price.

I suspect Su-25s might be a bit harder to locate.

Like GHQ, we have been selling a lot of 15mm Cold War lately, and not just tanks.

Of course the sale (on for another week!) may be helping that too.

Geoff
Www.quickreactionforce.co.uk

20mm diecast pre paints are the same price in many cases as these "new releases", if battlefront out price the 15mm, stagger or even make " special" releases, people will just go elsewhere for the models in 15mm or some other scale surely………

Speak of the devil, just got an email from MiniaturesMarket that they're shipping. Apparently BF didn't ship all the stuff with their order. Thanks MiniaturesMarket!

Damon.

Honestly I don't like 1:285th for painting purposes… too small to get a really kicking paint job unless you're a painting god. 15mm is about as small as you can go and still expect the average guy to get anything remotely resembling shading.

I guess there's painting purposes and gaming purposes. I clearly agree that 15mm allows for better modeling/painting results, but I'm not so sure how much the detail of individual models matters when those models are bunched up into a visually displeasing tight cluster on an overcrowded table top. I'm also not so sure the "average guy" is really worried about shading in 15mm. But those are just my personal opinions.

I have plenty of 1:285th that I'll be using to try out Team Yankee with and enough of my friends are doing the same, so it really does not matter to me what BF does with 15mm moderns. They lost the chance to earn a lot of my money when they decided to keep with 15mm in a game/board size environment where I really just don't think it works. Had they gone 10mm I might very well had replaced my 1:285th collection with bigger better looking models, but I'm just not about to do that for 15mm models that will look wrong to me on a 4x6 table.

I think BF really missed the chance to do something amazing with Team Yankee. If they had gone with great looking pre-painted 10mm/1:144 models like Takara/Dragon makes at relatively low prices that gamers could play with out of the box they might have dramatically expanded their customer base. Just imagine.

Oh, I've plenty of stuff from alternative manufacturers, my comment was pure sticker shock. Also have lots of GHQ floating about, might dig them out…

FToys have a great pre painted A10 you can get for less than $10 USD a pop to name one such alternative. The Frogfoot I'm still trying to source in 1/144.

That's odd. I haven't had any real problems getting Team Yankee stuff. I've had to wait a bit for a thing or two. The companies I've dealt with say it just volume. Maybe this is bigger than BF thought it would be?

Is staggering the release an error? Not in my opinion. I'm shooting for 50-75 point forces to start with and that's a lot of tanks, tracks, and bimps to assemble and paint. Plus it's a lot of scratch to put out too! Stretching it out a bit gives me time to assemble models, paint them up and bone up on the rules before the next wave shows up. A little patience is a good thing.

Yeah, there are other companies out there who have benefited from this probably at BF's cost. Good for them. I know GHQ benefitted from me snatching up a few odds and ends to build a 6mm force. But I'm getting 15mm too so BF hasn't lost much from me. I like BF's stuff, prefer it actually. So I'll happily wait and assemble my forces.

The great thing is that BF has picked up on the latent demand for the "golden age" of Cold War gaming. I remember it vividly from being a kid and playing Twilight 2000, Fireteam, and NATO which is why I'm jumping in with both feet. Only a company with the gaming clout that BF has could have pulled that off and I think a lot of us owe BF, and Harold Cole, a bit of a debt.

How are people basing their microarmour and infantry for TY? Using standard 15mm basing?

Harold Coyle.

i base all of mine on 1" squares. easier to handle.
check out 6mm site on facebook!

I think all three scales will benefit.

1/144th is the sweetspot I think, in terms of size.

1/100th models are nice to look at, and impressive on the tabletop, but given the various weapons and command control ranges, do look a bit crowded on the tabletop. I'm considering using a larger table, and doubling the weapons ranges and C2 for that.

1/285th are certainly very reasonably priced, and give a much better impression of range on the tabletop.

1/144th, being in between, looks to work reasonably well for both, though in many cases, their prices are about the same, and in some cases more than the larger 1/100th scale minis, unfortunately. On the plus side though, you get two times the maneuvering space on the tabletop, when compared to their larger 1/100th scale cousins, which I suspect to be helpful, and in some cases, you can find prepainted models for reasonable prices. Many of the really coveted models are either unavailable in quantity though, are very expensive, or not yet being produced, e.g. Marder 1, BMD-1 and BMD-2, M114, Jagdpanzer Kanones and Raketes, Bo-105 Helos, etc., etc..

The only thing holding me back on playing TY in 1/285 are the rules like turret facing. That can be fiddly and annoying at that scale. Plenty of other great rules though to enjoy cold war gaming in that scale however.

1/144 scale would work though, but since I've the space and 15mm terrain for much larger tables, that's how I'm dealing with the issues with games played on a 6x4. The biggest one for me being the massive table footprint of six hinds. 10 x 4 or 12 x 5 for 125pt games is what I'm aiming at.

We are promoting Team Yankee in 1/285th scale, whether from GHQ or CinC.
Apart from the price we think the scale fits modern better.
Basically more tanks on the table.

Painting 1/285th can be a little challenge but honestly for the cost I love the look and I give myself at best a C+ for painting. For Napoleonics, ACW and Ancients I like 15mm but only because I have already spent the money on them. Otherwise, 10mm might be my scale for them.

Personally, I think 6 x Hinds in one spot is just silly, and a bit of overkill, unless you have a full battalion, or more of armor, at 1:1 ratio of minis to vehicles from the TO&E on the tabletop at one time.

Even then, I'd probably just declare there are six, and use a pair or three to make multiple passes, one right after the other, so it just doesn't look silly.

That's the plan Mako. If you're gaming the Cold War going hot, it goes hot with whole battalions. Anything less is just luke warm.

Just by happenstance I wandered into my FLGS of sorts and snagged some BMPs

I contemplated 6mm but then decided is was too 1990 for me: seen it, been there, sold it.

I think the smaller scale tanks will put too many models under the artillery template and 15mm makes for nicer looking models.

For a new game, it seems remarkably difficult to actually buy stuff for it.

Well I'm always happy to sell you stuff for it :-)

Of course the move of the production plant about the same time may also be a questionable decision that is affecting supply

I plan on playing in both the 6mm scale for battalion level battles and 15mm scale for company or company minus. I have models from Geoff at QRF plus some on order, Khurasan M1A2s, BF, Zvezda, and GHQ.

The greatest thing slowing me down with 6mm miniatures is the lack of terrain. I picked up 6mm Napoleonics last year, so I have a reson to start building/ collecting.

I think the smaller scale tanks will put too many models under the artillery template

Is the theory here that people will bunch up models no matter the scale? To be sure, I could see that a player "could" get their entire 6mm force under a single Team Yankee template, but I'd look at that more as an indictment of that player more than a critique of the scale or the rules used.

and 15mm makes for nicer looking models.

No doubt about that! Assuming one's painting skills match the models' detail anyway. I've seen some spectacularly painted Mirco Armor models and some dismally painted 15mm BF models. Player/Modeler skill is an important aspect of the equations, maybe more so than scale and/or inherent model detail.

Actually Elmo I'm not sure it will put more tanks under the template. The coherency rule for TY is one of the biggest mistakes I've seen in a rule set. In 15mm scale all the tanks in a unit need to stay within 6" of the command tank.

Before this I blamed the players for parking lot syndrome. Regular FoW has reasonable command distances that let you spread out. PLayers choose not to. Now they've made it so you are supposed to keep 10 15mm scale T-72s within a 6" radius circle in a game with a 10x10" artillery template.

I think we can all figure the math on that one.

Helo density is a hot topic over on the FoW site. Someone posted photos of Hinds so dense that the rotors overlap to the point that they nearly touch the masts of nearby hinds.

It appears to have something to do with the morale rules. Some are suggesting a unique treatment for aircraft to avoid the mast-to-rotor problen.

I know the common refutation for FoW density is that "you shouldn't do it", but geometry is what it is and you simply don't have a choice.

The most generous analysis: a rifle platoon of three squads and one weapons squad is deployed 2 up and 1 back with two weapons squad MGs also in front. With two teams per rifle squad you're looking at a platoon frontage of 15" for the two forward squads and two MG teams.

Two rifle platoons deployed in that sort of real world and relatively dispersed formation would have a total frontage of 31" (1" gap where the platoons tie in). Thus just two rifle platoons each deployed 2 up and 1 back occupy about half of your full 72" table frontage.

With a typical force of about 6 platoons high troop density is just unavoidable given the math.

I was the one to post the picture at BF's site. The picture was from a BF demo game in Europe.

Yes, it is not pleasing to the eye. Now, the player could have used a new rule called "Line Abreast", which allows units to be in command, as long as they are in line with the commander.

The problem from a game mechanic perspective is that hits can only be allocated to teams within 6" of the target team. So if you are line abreast, you can take a number of hits on a few units. If you are bunched, you can have those hits spread out, thus improving the odds of survivability.

My opinion is that players do not like the visual of hub to hub or parking lots in any scale and in any rule set. It does not look realistic and it hurts the eyes. But humans will alter behavior when there is an incentive to do so. And that incentive is found in the rules.

In 6mm for TY or FoW, you actually reduce the eye strain because players naturally will not bunch up as much. My 6" square template may only fit 4 15mm M1 tanks under it if I bunch. But in 6mm, I may still have the same number, but the spacing will look much better to the eye. In my many games of FoW / TY in 6mm, this has always been the case.

So density in numbers may be the same, but the visual impact will not be as bad in 6mm as in 15mm.

bungled at least in my area. I have the bears, thats it. I have had the boys on order since the day of release, and nothing has shown up. And other than the initial 2 sets, none of the other releases have shown up yet.

I get having to wait with a staggered release. But it has been a staggered no release here. And yes I can get a lot of the stuff on line, but I plan of playing at the FLGS so feel an obligation to buy form them. Very frustrating.