"Landsknecht pike block - hilfe!" Topic

I have accumulated a vast lead mountain of 28mm landsknecht figures, pike, halberds, swords, shot, the whole shebang. I intend to paint and mount on bases for my viewing pleasure and not for gaming. What is visually the most appealling setup? I am grateful for any comments or advice! Thanks!

See pikeandplunder.vexillia.com for more visual inspiration like this:

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Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
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Wow!

Thank you both for your response. Great inspiration!

If you depict a block in action, pack them densely in the front. I currently have 4-5 on my FOGR/DBA bases (6*3), but will likely change this and pack three ranks of them on a 6*6 base, for ~15 men. Helbards (and a few swords, and flags) will be in their own ranks. The pic from Daniel nicely shows the layers of pikes and helbards in a pikeblock.

Another example:

(Just search for contemporary battle depictions, and you will find many more).

Shot would usually be in units on their own, framing the pikes on parade or march, but deployed wherever necessary in battle (defending ditches with pike backup, eg, as in Cerignola or Bicocca where many historians give credit to the gunners just to the Spanish). Ditches, field fortifications or fences would offen be used as defensive line even for pikeblocks, so if you build a diorama such a feature would make sense.

Perhaps if you tell us more about which minis you do own (Foundry, Pro Gloria/WG, Artizan, others) and what you plan to do (place them on bases, individually based, fixed as diorama) I can help you a bit with. my own considerations (I have a similar project in my line)

I have put some pics of my attempts to create realistical landsknecht units on this page (lower part, above are some Mithril conversions). These include a DBA-base (6*3) with 5 Landsknechts (my only painted so far) and a study on 12 on a 6*6 base, as some cabinet pics of my collection which are mainly 4 Landsknechts on one DBA base.

link

From a strict aesthetic viewpoint larger bases probably offer the best looks, like Impetus 12*6 cm bases (where a pike unit has up to three).

Puster and Daniel, which engravings are those, and who are their engravers?

Mine is by Jost Amman and was published as part of of Fronspergers "Kriegsbuch". Puster's s a part of Erhard Schön's allegory "Die Schlacht zwischen den Evangelischen und den Papisten".

Are those musketeers in the front and along the sides of the pike block? My eyes can't quite make the out.

Yes, there is even a group hidden behind the first 4-5 ranks of pike armed doppelsöldner ready to pour a hail of shot into the enemy front rank just before the pikes cross.

Hope this close up I made works better even though TMP reduces the size of the image.

Afaik gunners were only shortly used integrated within pikeblocks, most famously at Ceresole.

Most miniatures depict Landsknechts during the high time of the Italian wars (I would class Foundry, Artizan and PG as most usefull for 1510-1540) were such a deployment is at least uncommon – actually I do not know of any contemporary illustration or such a usage before 1544. I would, however, not rule out that a defensive line would be detached from the pikeblocks and supported by gunners. That would fit in with some accounts of Cerignola, Marignano or Bicocca.

All I can tell you is that I have large armies of Swiss and Landsknechts. They look GREAT!

But, the Landsknechts are on 4" by 8.5" bases, with 25 pikemen, five officers, and 32 arquebusiers on he flanks, and on each edge 8 dopplesoldner halberdiers and Double Swordsmen. So that's 70 figures. You can't break them up into little itsy-bitsy stands and that prevents the rules lawyers and "fiddlers" from making them look ratty and ugly.

The Swiss have a regiment of three stands, Vorhut, Hut, and Nachthut, the vorhut is about 4.5 inches deep, 6 inches wide, and has 32 figures. The main hut has 90 pikemen and halberdiers, and the nachthut about the same of halberdiers and swordsmen.

My rules do not count figures or casualties. The whole unit stands or dies as one.

They look great. That's all that counts.

@Otto…
Photos please!

I assume you track the state of the unit somehow, as making just a few binary units slugging it out a kind of abstract game. Anyway, who cares about the game when it looks like a battle diorama :-)

Dear Puster

I don't and won't use a photo service. Howeve if you send me your e-mail at sigurd@eclipse.net I will send you attachments.

If you send me your snail-mail, (postal delivery address) I'll send you a free copy of the rules.

To answer your question, no. I don't track anything There are four types of movement allowed, which I won't get into because I doesn't get to your question, but combat is handled through the use of combat results cards. Thee is a deck of combat results cards you use to "toss" on to enemy units. So for example, if you have a "Charge" value of 4, you toss four cards on his unit, face down. He does the same to you. Combat is simultaneous both missile and melee, in the next to last phase.

These cares come from a deck of 120 which has 30 cards saying retreat 1 measure (8") twenty cards, say no effect, 10 say "Shaken" with a small grey triangle on them, 10 say "Fatigued" with a small brown triangle on it. 10 have a small green triangle and are "disorganized" 10 have a small yellow triangle on hem and say Broken. Six are panicked rout cards, 10 out of control cards two are eliminated cards and two are officer casualty cards, and there are 10 situation cards which can do very good or very bad things for you. These cards, as I said are laid against a unit by the enemy. The enemy (and you then get to "make "To Stand" rolls against it. You roll one die for each card and if you roll less than or equal to the units rally factor you toss the card back into the pile. If you roll greater then the card goes on the unit. Cards with the colored triangles persist and stay on from turn to turn till you roll them off in the rally phase (after combat). Other cards are applied immediately. So if you don't roll off a card it takes effect. So if you have an eliminated card and don't roll it off, ooooops!!! the whole unit is taken off the field. There's only two of them in a 120 card deck so the odds of getting hit by one are pretty low, but there are other ways to eliminate the unit. A shaken card means the unit cannot move, a fatigued card means it can't use it's melee or charge value, an out of ammo card means it can't fire, a disorganized card means it's values are reduced by one (all values are from 0 to 5) a broken card means it's values are reduced to 1. If you get two broken cards on a unit or four retreat 1 measure cards the unit is also eliminated. there are also cards called "heroic rally" which if the unit isn't eliminated, takes off ALL the triangle penalty cards.

So there's no tracking, just conditions imposed by the presence of the combat result cards. There are also specialty cards that can be added for specific scenarios etc.

You have it right though I wanted he game at all times to look good, and believe me nothing looks better than the 5 by 7" swiss pike stands with a forest of pikes and five or six huge banners in the center! It looks just like the painting sby Altdorfer.

Mail sent. If you want I can put the images online for you, if the usage of a 3rd party service is the concern. If its the privacy then I will of course handle them accordingly.

Seems like the cards work as a dynamic tracking of state – not as casualty counter, but for morale aspects. Sounds good, though I wonder how/wether the tactical situation on the table comes into this. Is there any provision to cover the interaction of differently sized ("Hut" vs. "Nachhut" or armed (Infantry vs. Cavalry) units? Definitely interested, and willing to try this, though postage to Germany might be too stiff.

We should continue this per Mail, so that we do not derail this threat too much :-)

Thank you, Daniel!

Many thanks for all the added comments! Please continue! Puster, I will use a mix of Foundry and ProGloria for the pike and additional Artizan and GW for swords and halberds. I am grateful for any further comments!