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"Scots Greys Sergeants" Topic


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1,206 hits since 6 Jan 2016
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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stoneman181006 Jan 2016 3:44 p.m. PST

Hello all. Hope the New Years finds all of you in fine shape!

I just purchased the AB set of Sgt. Ewart capturing the colors. I can find pictures of officers and of troopers. But I haven't been able to get any info on the sergeants.

Was their lace yellow or gold – or some combination? Also, the cap cords.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

JimDuncanUK06 Jan 2016 3:57 p.m. PST

My books say:

All ranks, front of collar – gold lace

Jacket front, cuffs and turnbacks – yellow lace with a central stripe of dark blue

Waist band -yellow lace with two stripes of dark blue

No mention of rank distinctions

dibble06 Jan 2016 4:38 p.m. PST

Three gold chevrons on the right sleeve only. For a reconstruction, see National Army Museum's mannequin of Sgt. Ewart.

link

Paul :)

stoneman181006 Jan 2016 4:55 p.m. PST

Thanks guys! Paul thanks for the link. I had never been on that site – it is a great resource!

Best Regards,

John

stephen phillip06 Jan 2016 9:56 p.m. PST

Also have a look at the centjours.mont saint jean site. In french but easy enough to navigate lots of coloured uniform pictutres. would send u a link but cant from my cell phone

Widowson07 Jan 2016 1:52 p.m. PST

Most important, and an error on the mannequin – no carbine or carbine belt for NCOs.

SJDonovan08 Jan 2016 3:02 a.m. PST

Whilst I would also generally recommend the mont saint jean site it does contain a few errors and the plates for the Scots Greys are a case in point. The wings and gold chevrons on the sleeves of the trumpeter strike me as very unlikely. link

dibble08 Jan 2016 8:57 a.m. PST

SJDonovan

Whilst I would also generally recommend the mont saint jean site it does contain a few errors and the plates for the Scots Greys are a case in point. The wings and gold chevrons on the sleeves of the trumpeter strike me as very unlikely

I agree, That site is pretty good but is a bit of a minefield.

I can find trumpeter distinctions with pre-1812 pattern heavy dragoon trumpeters jackets such as sheverons, facing colour Jackets, and birds-nest Epaulettes. I have found no evidence of those distinctions being carried over to the 1812 pattern uniforms

Paul :)

stoneman181008 Jan 2016 10:02 a.m. PST

Thanks guys – appreciate the info. For such a famous regiment it's surprising how difficult it is to find uniform details. For example, the saddle blanket is shown with 2 blue stripes on both sides, or just on the left, or no stripes at all. The blanket is shown in anything from a medium dark grey to almost white.

SJDonovan08 Jan 2016 10:25 a.m. PST

British Napoleonic shabraques and saddle blankets do see to be a bit of a mystery. In Franklin's 'British Napoleonic Uniforms', the author comments: "It has not been possible to illustrate the shabraques for every regiment as there is insufficient evidence to undertake such a study." For what it is worth, I painted the saddle cloths for my Scots Greys mid-grey with two blue stripes but this was because I thought it looked good rather than because I knew it was right.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP08 Jan 2016 10:44 a.m. PST

Dighton's painting of Ewart is the nearest thing to a contemporary image. The rest is Victorian. I wonder if he started the two blue lines idea, but was just trying to show layers of folded blanket. Blame the Airfix Scots Grey for then imprinting this on our minds.

Denis did show great attention to detail. He shows Ewart's stripes, oilskin covers on the troopers etc. French uniforms are a bit dodgy though.

picture

I always paint the blue stripes, however wrong!

SJDonovan08 Jan 2016 10:52 a.m. PST

It is a great painting, though how Ewart ever managed to grab the flagstaff with his hand in that position is a mystery to me. Maybe the French porte-aigle was holding it upside down?

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP08 Jan 2016 1:32 p.m. PST

Dighton took great attention to detail on British Uniforms. They can be parade ground (as in his Guards at Hougoumont with white overalls), but his best known is Uxbridge attacking the Imperial Guard (yes, I know, but it looks great). Marvellous detail.

Contemporary style was to show horses with tiny heads and all four legs off the ground. The word is that he did properly research the British uniforms. So, if he says gloves, not gauntlets, details of the portmanteau etc, I'll believe him!
The French shakos he never got right. They are not even Second Restoration style…….

dibble08 Jan 2016 3:15 p.m. PST

Here's a link to a contemporary painting titled: The Scots Greys in Bivouac the night before Waterloo

The picture is in a naive style but there is a mounted trooper showing the saddle blanket in the bottom right hand corner.

There is also a trooper laying down and resting his head on his hand over on the left, which seems to show his jacket having chevrons running down it.

link

Paul :)

SJDonovan08 Jan 2016 4:02 p.m. PST

That's a fascinating painting dibble. Maybe I did the Mont St Jean site a disservice because the guy on the left not only seems to have chevrons on his jacket but it also looks like he has shoulder wings (I'm not sure about this – I couldn't blow it up enough to be clear). The forage caps are interesting too. I haven't seen those before either.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP08 Jan 2016 4:04 p.m. PST

Yes!

Well done……..I've seen the original and forgotten that one. Reinforces Dighton.

Edinburgh Castle of course has the eagle, but also, often forgotten, the saddlery and portmanteau of an officer from the Big Day! No blanket though……

stoneman181008 Jan 2016 8:40 p.m. PST

Well, TMP is amazing! One little question and I get some really great insights. Thanks again to all of you. I think I like the blue stripes just on the left. . .

von Winterfeldt09 Jan 2016 12:48 a.m. PST

@dibble

Thanks for the link – I knew this painting only in black in white in Molo's Uniforms of Waterloo, and yes the chevrons seemingly are confirmed

dibble09 Jan 2016 4:29 a.m. PST

SJDonovan:

No! You haven't done the Mont St.Jean site a disservice. There are some glaring mistakes on that site.

And here is said painting.

Paul :)

SJDonovan09 Jan 2016 4:49 a.m. PST

Hi Paul,

There may be some errors but I do think it is a wonderful resource. And it is totally free, there aren't even any adverts to contend with.

Maybe if anyone is aware of any mistakes they could contact the author because I am sure he works hard to get it right. (I think he used to post here under the name Cosaque but I haven't seen him for a long time).

I must admit I had considered writing to him about the Scots Greys trumpeter until you posted that painting . . .

dibble09 Jan 2016 5:16 a.m. PST

His 95th bugler, 23rd RWF and 'Blues' are just a few that I have looked at; all are questionable. As for the Colours. The design proportions are even worse than what wargames flag sellers offer.

Paul :)

SJDonovan09 Jan 2016 5:49 a.m. PST

Hi Paul,

I should probably start a different thread for this, but what is the problem with the uniform of the 23rd? I've always found the uniforms of the fusilier regiments a bit of a mystery and I've never been totally sure whether in the Napoleonic period they actually had grenadier and light companies. I sidestepped the problem by painting all ten companies in bearskin caps with white cords and plain white hackles.

von Winterfeldt09 Jan 2016 5:50 a.m. PST

I wouldn't trust the Mt. St. Jean website at all without cross checking – it is a good effort but it cannot be without mistake.

dibble09 Jan 2016 7:46 a.m. PST

The 23rd did have Light and grenadier Companies but they also all wore white hackles and all wore elite company epaulettes.

Paul :)

SJDonovan09 Jan 2016 8:04 a.m. PST

Thanks Paul,

That's one mystery cleared up.

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