"Doubt about USS Constitution" Topic

Hi, I'm painting the USS Constitution and I found this picture on the Internet. I would like to confirm me whether it is correct.

Thanks in advance, greetings!
Julián

Not exactly sure what your doubt is but you might check out this model, made in 1813.

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Many thansk this info is very helpful!

Thanks, I'm happy to be of any help, I have greatly admired your work and while my ships aren't near as good as yours you have given me many tips to improve my work and served as an inspiration.

Go here –
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and here -
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B

I thought the USS Constitution has cross braces on its frame to stop it from bowing. This was used to stop the bow and stern from getting higher then amidships.

Thank you all! All help is wellcome

I thought the USS Constitution has cross braces on its frame to stop it from bowing. This was used to stop the bow and stern from getting higher then amidships.

I I remember correctly it did…then it didn't…then it did again. At some point the cross braces were removed, then replaced when the Navy discovered why then had been installed in the first place. The ship was in drydock and gradually had the sag removed from hull a little bit at a time.

The braces were called "diagonal riders" i believe and were to prevent "hogging" of the hull….

They were part of the originsl design – removed – and relatively recently when the navy was looking to correct the sag, a number of options, including modern ones, were condidered – but the end selection was to return to the as built solution….

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong – this is based on a distant memory of a below decks tour i had when they were re- installing them

Model J.

Your reference is generally correct if you are talking War of 1812. If you are looking at late 18th century, as launched, then it was quite different. In addition, her decorations and bulwarks were different as well. Which period are you modeling?

J gibbons

You are correct. Crossbraces were removed in the 19th century as they were bad. They were not replaced as no one thought she would be around much longer…a cost saving measure. They were reinstalled recently now that she is a prized artifact for preservation..

I am modeling 1812 so the picture is right. Many thanks!

And the colors is this….? With 15 stars
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The USS Constitution museum in Boston has/had an interesting exhibit regarding these diagonal riders, Each of them was of unique and complex shape. The hewing and shaping of them must have been a complicated (and expensive) effort.

B

Where are the rocket engines?

Sorry Fallout 4 flashback.

link

During the Tripoli actions (1803) she collided with USS President and suffered extensive damage to her bow. Following the reconstruction the appearance of her bow changed from that it launch. The Anatomy of the Ship series has a volume on the USS Constitution which is excellent and shows a comparision of the launch appearance with that of 1812. Her current reconstruction is to appear as she was in 1812.

ttp://store.ussconstitutionmuseum.org/products/anatomy-of-the-ship-uss-constitution-karl-heinz-marquardt

I think of the USS Constiution as an early expression of te battlecruiser concept

It could beat anything that could catch it and outrun anything that could beat it :-)

Did not work out for her sister ship USS President!
be safe
Rory

Actually USS President broke her back and sprung her masts by grounding on an uncharted reef. This catastrophic damage severely affected her speed in the action that immediately followed, where she was caught and captured by an entire British squadron (2x 24-pounder frigates, a razee armed with 42-pdr carronades and 32-pdr long guns, and an 18-pdr frigate).

Intact, she was certainly the fastest of the American frigates. At one point, I believe, the captain of the Constitution offered to pay substantial $$$ to the captain of the President to exchange ships, but was rebuffed.

Note that the two ships that actually caught and fought the damaged USS President were themselves famously fast sailors: HMS Endymion, probably the best of the British 24-pounder frigates, and HMS Pomone (captured from the French), whose lines Endymion copied.

Hi KS ….. The sand bar was not uncharted, more like "mislaid". The existence of the bar across the path of the channel connecting New York harbor to the open sea was well known, as was the location of the place where the water was deep enough to permit passage of ships. The problem was that Decatur made his breakout at night and, as it happened, under quite stormy conditions. The proper channel was to have been marked by boats anchored with navigation lights to guide the way, but incorrect positioning of these boats caused the PRESIDENT to run hard aground, where she spent an hour and a half or so beating herself on the sand bar before Decatur finally succeeded in forcing her over.

I do not believe that PRESIDENT literally broke her back on the bar. From what I have read, the principal damages were that a portion of her false keel was dislodged and knocked askew, her hull was strained and distorted and the hasty shifting of her large weight of stores (to get her over the bar) left her badly out of trim. These factors, plus some likely derangement of her masts and spars and standing rigging, together conspired to materially injure her normally fine sailing qualities.

FWIW.

B

Quick question about Decatur and the capture of the USS President.

Decatur struck to the Endymion and having struck attempted escape because of a delay by the British in putting a prize crew on board. The President then struck again to the Pomone when again overhauled.

Is not striking then running away contrary to the rules of war at the time?

Re the alleged surrender of President to Endymion, the facts of the case are as follows.

After a lengthy action, Endymion had become disabled aloft around the time that darkness had descended. President then turned away, exposing her stern to Endymion and continued fire from her stern-chasers for some minutes thereafter – during which time Endymion's guns remained silent. In the course of President's withdrawal, a light was seen to have been hoisted into President's rigging. Certain officers aboard Endymion (but not IICR Capt Hope) interpreted that act as signifying President's surrender. Decatur strenuously denied having done so and insisted that he surrendered the ship only later to Pomone. It is certainly fair to ask why Decatur would have struck to a disabled ship which had itself ceased fire.

The Naval Chronicles contain both the log entry of HMS Pomone and Commodore Hayes' report of the action. Pomone's log stated that the light seen in the President's rigging was considered to have been the night-time equivalent of her colors (common practice in the period) and continued to fire upon President until the light had been lowered, even though the President had already ceased her fire. IIRC, Commodore Hayes' report on the action rather carefully avoided the claim that Decatur had reneged upon a surrender to Endymion. Even William James, noted for his dislike and antagonism toward the USN in the War of 1812, treated the Endymion claim with circumspection.

I was quite disappointed in Andrew Lambert's book, "The Challenge", wherein he so vilified Decatur on this point, despite such evidence to the contrary.

B