"Save us from J.J. Abrams." Topic

In Abram's defense he's just delivering what the studios believe they need in the current market place. And a man's got to eat and it probably gives him the elbow room to do what he wants occasionally. He's clearly capable of greater subtly. So I wouldn't necessarily call it the 'zeitgeist', but whatever it is he does it well compared to a lot of others.

As for the issue of 'cannon' its worth noting that both SW and ST are not underpinned by an original literary work. For Disney I believe it was a simple commercial decision, they bought the 6-movies (for a very, very large pile of cash) and ended up with a bunch of other stuff, which could only constrain them. I'd have voted to throw the expanded universe stuff under a bus as well, with a perhaps a caveat on the KOTOR-stuff, which doesn't affect the future and actually has some good potential. Peter Jackson never was going to claim his LoTR movies were 'cannon' and I don't believe even studio execs' at New Line Cinema are that stupid.

I'm ambivalent about ST for various reasons and easily see why they went for the 'reboot' given the range and spread of the existing material. But ultimately that also falls to the studios desire to recycle or appropriate existing material (which is already popular and is therefore less of a commercial risk) rather than do anything original. Frankly JJ probably did ST fans a favor given the alternative might have been a simple remake with someone blundering around pretending to be Shatner…

With both Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, we have two competing, on going canons.
Neither the books nor the TV shows have ended yet. Oddly, in both cases the original story maker uppers are heavily involved in the TV production.

Lucas has been squeezed out and is annoyed.
He has said he sold his baby to "white slavers".
His vision for episodes 7-9 is nowhere in sight.
How he would have handled it can be seen by what he did in 1-3. Base your opinion on what Abrams did on what Lucas could have done.

I'm ambivalent about ST for various reasons and easily see why they went for the 'reboot' given the range and spread of the existing material.

It was rebooted in terms of speed, action, FX, and so on, at the expense of plot and character. But then he just recycled the old stories, only this time not taking time to have them make any sense or hang together coherently or even logically. Same as he did with Star Wars.

The first Abrams reboot Star Trek was the same plot as the previous "Nemesis" : a renegade monster spaceship heading for earth on a mission of vengeance, and must be stopped at all costs…

The second Abrams Star Trek was: a renegade monster spaceship heading for earth on a mission of vengeance, and must be stopped at all costs… Plus Khan.

When I think "reboot," I think of something like James Bond or Battlestar Galactica, where they made an effort to come up with newish storylines and character arcs. Abrams just re-does all the graphics and turns everything up to "11" and transforms all the characters into action heroes.

Winston Smith I did like Episodes 1-3 irreguardless of what people say about them and for myself if I like them then that's all that matters just my humble opinion.

With GoT, Martin is himself a script writer and therefore is probably a little more sanguine about the issue of 'cannon' in the process of televising it.

He has said he sold his baby to "white slavers".

Sellers regret… but he didn't have sell it! I'd also say that his 'baby' was often at its best when he had other people doing the screen writing.

As for the 'depth of characterisation' in TFA – clearly a bunch of it ended up on the cutting room floor, to its detriment, and I think people are maybe seeing it through the lens of the character development arc in ALL three of the preceding trilogy. Star Wars, ESB or RotJ on their own are not exactly Pinter. We're also getting used to big TV series like GoT and BSG which have the space for serious character development. If Lucas was to produce Star Wars now would it have been a big long format TV series rather than a film?

How he would have handled it can be seen by what he did in 1-3. Base your opinion on what Abrams did on what Lucas could have done.

Probably quite true… Given the rather sometimes rather jarring continuity between the first and second trilogy I dread to think what Lucas himself might have done – though granted he might not have stuck all the major plot elements of the original films in a blender to produce a new script!

His vision for episodes 7-9 is nowhere in sight.

Thank God! Lucas's vision was a complete and utter failure for the prequels. And it gave us Jar-Jar. *shudder*

javelin98 the prequels were not an utter failure IMHO and I'm glad it gave us Jar Jar Binks which I'm grateful for Lucas for doing that.

Some of my favorite authors are those who sell their babies to Hollywood and then smile, cash the check, and go to the premier praising the movie that turned Marilyn Monroe into Moms Mabley.
Elmore Leonard is a classic example. Tim Powers was delighted to sell basically the title to the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. I'm in the movies!

It's a wise author who knows that books are not movies. Martin is one.
So is William Goldman.
George should have cashed the check and smiled.

"Vox called the former "a baldfaced rip-off." Forbes opted for "glorified remake." The Verge said that without George Lucas' blessing it would be "universally derided as the thinnest, most obvious plagiarism" and also, bafflingly, called it "an alternate-universe version of A New Hope that just happens to be set in the same universe." Even the Vatican newspaper got in on the act, calling The Force Awakens a "confused and hazy reboot."

It's a bad sign when you find yourself rooting for the bad guys to kill off the two main characters. I am convinced more so than ever that GL was a true genus.

The scene where what's her face for no apparent reason runs into the woods. I thought I heard voices from the woods. I thought to myself "oh no here come the Ewoks."

My Wife was expecting Luke to show up in his old X fighter and say "okay Poe I got your back, lets blow this thing!"

Say what you will.

But this movie had no annoying Jar Jar Binks or Ewoks in it.

Yes they pulled a few plotlines from the first movie, so what if they did.

This movie is quite good and will not get ruined by George Lucas PC'ing it like he did with the first movie.

Oh and what you can expect from the next movie is Rey learning to be a Jedi from Luke (just like Luke learned to be one from Yoda).

OMG another plotline stolen from Empire Strikes back.

Oh and you will go and see it because it is not GL making the movies but someone else so it will be good.

Well, you can quote all the reviews you want, but that won't change the fact that the vast majority of movie goers have liked the film a lot and are going again and again. But keep on railing against it if that makes you happy…

While Disney now owns the rights to the Star Wars universe and all future films going forward, 20th Century Fox has retained the rights to the first six movies. The original film, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, is theirs forever, and they'll own the final five films, Episodes I-III, V and VI, through May 2020.

In which case they bought slightly less (I wasn't aware of that – though I suppose it shouldn't surprise), the biggest prize probably being the merchandising deal. All I can say is that over the last couple of years it look likes Disney has attempted to acquire more male-biased IP to widen the appeal of their shops, but that's a completely different topic.

Calling it a 'reboot' frankly is just wrong and a lazy assumption, based on Abrams ST work. And FWIW a lot of media critics have huge blind spots where science fiction is concerned. The fact that its re-fried Star Wars is hardly surprising. Its arguable a very, very safe movie and Abrams no doubt considered a safe pair of hands by Disney – given that he appears not to be on board for the next film maybe the studio will engage a more interesting director loosen the leash on the screen writers?

The only way we'll ever know if Lucas had better ideas is if we ever get to see his treatments!

Mithmee I must say that Jar Jar Binks was NOT annoying he did his job very well so enough already.

You're one of the few that feels that way so enough already. The rest of us hate the character and will continue to do so. So there. 8)=

nazrat I'm sorry but I've the right to say what I want and you can't stop me from doing it so if you don't like what I say you don't have to respond to it.

So it's okay for you to tell others "enough already" but nobody can say it to you, even in jest? Puh-leeeeeease!

The movie was loud,colorful,and fast-paced. A true JJ Abrams movie (It's all he does). I have seen this SW twice so far and I must say that it is a very nice Disney science fiction movie. It is NOT star Wars, but that's okay. I did not waste my money.

nazrat I made a mistake in my choice of words I'm human is that a crime?

I liked it, and nothing I've read has persiaded me I was wrong to like it.

I liked it too. I was a little annoyed when it became an obvious rehash of IV with the fighters closing in on the death star just as it is about to zap the planet. But it was a fun movie.

Essentially, Star Wars is a story about discovery. It is the hero's journey. A cycle that shows the progression of the hero, from youth and innocence to maturity and wisdom. Anakin failed to realize the lesson, Luke learned his. Read Hero with a Thousand Faces to understand what the hero's journey includes.
The lesson that Anakin failed to realize was that both the Jedi and Palpatine were using him and that he needed to break out into his own person. Unfortunately, his anger and fear blinded him and his excessive pride, his hubris, caused him not to recognize this fact. If he would have realized that his emotional responses were destroying everything he loved, then he would have transcended, become more and better than he was, and that is the true tragedy.
Lucas' vehicle for delivering his message, the prequels were so overburdened with technology, his sense of his "vision" and it's importance, that he himself failed to realize his own lesson; do not let details to overshadow the story.
The Hero's journey is all around us. Lucas' success of the Star Wars, Empire and Return arc stemmed from the fact that he modeled the story on the hero's journey. When he deviated from the formula he failed.
To think of it in Star Wars terms, Lucas fell to the Dark Side. He let his pride (fear of letting go the Star Wars franchise).
The new movie continues the series, since the hero's journey is cyclical, albeit with a new generation. There are many elements that recur: status quo, the call to adventure, the refusal of the call, the threshold, the mentor, etc.; these are all archetypes that are reused to tell the stories we all know and love.

I liked it for the special effects etc, but….

The plot line didn't make sense (Spoilers)

So 20 odd years earlier the rebels beat the Empire, and the republic is reborn, then a group who model themselves exactly on the Empire grows.

1) the Replic, after beating the Empire lets another copy of the Empire build again, really? Wouldn't you bash it over the head before it gets to big?
2) and the rebels are still around, why? The Republic is in charge, are they rebelling against the republic? No, so why are they called the rebellion? If the Empires not in charge then the "rebels" are really just another faction that just happen to look and act exactly like the old rebellion.

Makes no sense, and I hated the Black stormtrooper, stormtroopers are bred/grown to be warriors, I can understand him deserting because he has ethical problems with the Empire, but I didn't like his cowardly treats, just seemed stupid. And what up with the disco stormtrooper? Brianne in space. And the new Darth fader needs some cool armour.

They really made an error not explaining the backstory at some point in the film.

What we're seeing in TFA is a proxy war (think Korea or Vietnam) that quickly expands.

--The Republic and Empire both exist, but have declared a peace of sorts and are now effectively in a cold war.

--The First Order is (at least officially) a splinter faction of the remaining Empire.

--The Resistance is the non-sanctioned group of Republic exiles that is trying to contain the First Order with little to no support from the Republic.

--For whatever reason, most of the Republic has ignored the First Order as a threat, even as they build a superweapon out of a freaking planet.

Guess that changes about halfway through the movie.

***

Black stormtrooper? They did explain that. Not sure why that's an issue.

Disco stormtrooper? Silver armor makes about as much sense as white armor, so no real issue there either, personally.

Kylo Ren's armor? You realize he's not a walking cadaver like Vader, right? He wasn't supposed to be as 'cool' as Vader – the fact that he isn't and that HE KNOWS IT are major plot points.

Storm Troopers are like Imperial Guard, they are taxes.

You may your Tax with money if you can, then goods, then people.

But it is Star Wars, it has never made sense.

It is a ride to enjoy, I left with my lost 10 year old self after watching it.