"Preese save uz from da Norsumeen or Vikings in Japan " Topic

I have been thinking about a hypothetical battle between samurai and vikings for quite some time. It started with the mightiest warrior show.

The Norse were excellent sailors and sailed very far from their native lands. Everyone knows where I am going with this.
Are there any major factors stopping an expedition from sailing to Japan? Could it have happened at all? The Mongolians made it across Asia and also invaded Japan. If the Mongolians did it then there is a chance the Vikings could have as well. It may be a logistical and nerve wracking stretch for those poor Norsemen. But it could have happened.

The other thing I was wondering about iS the time period when this could occur. I limit it to somewhere between 850 – 1100.
The nation of the Rus was started sometime in 855 or so. Instead of staying put the Vikings kept sailing east until they run into the Chinese.
From there they set up a base camp and are hired by the Chinese to raid Japan.
DbMM army book 3 has III / 40 Norse Viking and Leidang divides the armiew into raiders until 850 ad and then the Hird armies after that until 1100 AD. I opt for the Viking raiders as Irr Bd (F) over the Hird. It seems more appropriate.
The Japanese are a little more difficult to determine. There is list III / 7 Pre-samurai Japanese that runs until 850. After that is the III / 55 Early Samurai which covers the rest of my proposed time period.

I like the idea of the Vikings fighting or raiding villages ruled by samurai nobles and his retainers. It may be more creditable to use the pre-Samurai list.

I may be off on my dates. Maybe the Vikings could have attacked Japan after 1066? That is definitely up for debate.

Does anyone have any input on this?

Personally I think there are middle-men for this fantasy scenario that are more easily worked into the story than the Mongols: the Arabs. Here's my take:

Norsemen were highly regarded as navigators and sailors, as well as mercenaries. They travelled across the Mediterranean for trade and plunder during the 800's and 900's, both around Spain and Italy and Nort Africa, interacting with both Christian and Muslim kingdoms.

So, while the Vikings found what they wanted in the Mediterranean and didn't have ambitions further east, an ambitious Muslim ruler in the Levant might. So if we throw history aside anyway, maybe that ruler was looking for a group of well armed mercenaries that could explore new eastern trade routes for him. If said mercenaries were great navigators too, it would be very helpful.

So, while pondering this question, a fleet of 60 viking ships just happens to move into the area, looking for a way to earn riches. Hey presto, they are sent to the east with promises to keep any loot they can gather on the way, get far longer to the east on the Indian Ocean than they expected, and they are on their way to East Asia.

A long stretch, but not as long a stretch as walking across the Asian steppes of current day Russia.

What route would the Vikings take to Japan?

If they are going by sea there is an awful lot of land and/or ice in the way! I think you can forget the northern route across the Arctic Ocean, skirting modern day Russia, as it is unlikely to be navigable.

Sailing south down the coast of Europe and Africa would get them so far, but they would run into the same problem with unfavourable winds that prevented European explorers of the 15th and 16th Centuries sailing south and rounding the Cape for decades.

That leaves sailing around the Americas and across the Pacific!

The most plausible route is the land route across the steppe. Even if they make it they won't have any boats to get to Japan!

So Samurai V Vikings is not impossible but any scenario will involve a big dollop of 'willing suspension of disbelief'!

Look into the 16th century Cossack invasion of Siberia. While obviously not historical, Viking mercenaries could follow a similar route to the Pacific.

Could make for an interesting force, a core of Vikings with Siberian slaves picked up on the way.

What route would the Vikings take to Japan?

The aliens take them in their spaceships.

What? It's just as plausible.

Or maybe the Vikings were raiding from their colony in Australia.

Sounds interesting. If you take a look at Viking history, various viking groups got as far as the Black Sea via BOTH the Volga and the Med. The Varingian Guard of the Byzantine Emperors were Vikings so its not inconcievable that they take a detour south, conquer the isthmus between Egypt and the Sinai and move out from there. Say, here's a MErry Marvel Team Up for you all. How about Vikings Vs. Muslims in the Middle East? That could be fun too,

In short I don't think it would be too big a stretch to see Vikings make it to Japan.

No more stranger than a Roman Legion sold into slavery by the Parthians to the Chinese.

What route would the Vikings take to Japan?

If they are going by sea there is an awful lot of land and/or ice in the way! I think you can forget the northern route across the Arctic Ocean, skirting modern day Russia, as it is unlikely to be navigable.

Medieval Warm Period might make it possible to travel across the Siberian coast, through the Bering Strait, down the Kanchatka Peninsula and Sakhalin Islands, past Hokkaido and onto the main island.

This is why I said unlikely!

I have no idea how the Medieval Warm Period affected the North Siberian coast. Although I would be surprised if it warmed enough for Vikings to pass from one end to the other. If it had been possible, I think there is a good chance that it was actually done.

Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and all that!

Okay. I really like all the ideas. Thanks a lot guys.

I now know that this is more plausible than an alien having engine problemS and warping a west Virginian town to 1632 AD.

Good imput and it gives me a lot to think about.

Are there any major factors stopping an expedition from sailing to Japan?

Yes, the extreme distances involved.

Could it have happened at all? The Mongolians made it across Asia and also invaded Japan. If the Mongolians did it then there is a chance the Vikings could have as well.

Well, the Mongols were a nomadic Steppe people, so traveling vast distances by horse across the Steppes is not the same as Viking sailors finding rivers to traverse Asia.

As for invading Japan, the Mongols held Korea. The Korean Strait, which separates Korea and Japan, is only about 120 miles wide. Large islands (like Tsushima) are in the middle of the strait and did act as a staging area. It's not a difficult sail…….barring typhoons of course.

The nation of the Rus was started sometime in 855 or so. Instead of staying put the Vikings kept sailing east until they run into the Chinese.

The Rus had settled along the Volga, which technically is in Europe (it is the longest river in Europe). Sailing east from the Volga gets you only into the Caspian Sea, still a very long way from the Chinese, let alone the Japanese. Like Setsuko says, they would hit the Persians and then Arabs.

But listen, don't worry about the historicity of the whole thing. If you want to fight Vikings vs Samurai then go for it. It's your hobby.

So Viking traders followed the Silk Road trading amber, furs and walrus ivory in return for silk. It is not so hard to imagine…

I think you should just suspend belief and say that a great Viking fleet got lost in a great storm, and landed on the shores of Japan many weeks/months later.

In reality, your time periods wouldn't really have matched up exactly, besides, if the Vikings could have reached China, they would have stopped there to plunder the wealth of Cathay. Japan was a very poor nation.

That does make sense that China would be more lucrative. It does not need to make total sense to be a fun scenario.

I like to ponder on what if scenarios like this. What if America had invaded Iran in the mid 80's or in response to the hostage crisis?

What route would the Vikings take to Japan?

Vinland, up the St Lawrence, into the Great Lakes, walk for a while (!), build new ships on the west coast, and then sail across the north Pacific? That would put you in the 11th century, and give you early Samurai (of, for instance, the Former Nine Years' War vintage?) rather than the earlier armies that the Rus option would suggest.

Or get some Eureka Tlingit for your villagers – link – and have them attacked by samurai and vikings from opposite directions!

That would have made quite the Saga!

The Tlingit models look really strange wearing the hollowed out heads of elks.

These models are great. I would use them but I am building a viking and early samurai army in 6mm. I would have to do some conversions to make Tlingit tribesmen.

Your proposed route is interesting. I considered the Norsemen sailing west and somehow getting around north america.
The idea of a Sultan hiring them as mercenaries was also a good idea.

I read a fictional book long ago where Vikings landed in So. America and fought Meso Americans. That might make good scenario as well.

Irregular Minis. makes a nice line in 6mm, always meant to pick up an army…