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"Is it "Ultramodern Gaming" if it never happened?" Topic

22 Posts

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15 Sep 2016 6:01 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from TMP Poll Suggestions board

1,052 hits since 17 Dec 2015
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

28mm Fanatik17 Dec 2015 2:28 p.m. PST

Do you consider "What If?" contemporary or near future battles and conflicts that never happened (but could happen) to fall into this category?

For instance, if I want to recreate a potential Sino-Japanese skirmish over the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, or the Sino-Russian battles in the Clancy novel 'The Bear and the Dragon.'

I'm asking because conflicts within the last 10 years are by far counterinsurgency in nature. BOOOOORING.

Just Jack Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member17 Dec 2015 2:31 p.m. PST

Absolutely! To me it can be made up conflicts, so long as we're using current gear.


Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2015 2:45 p.m. PST

I'm sure that if the potential antagonists haven't gotten around to having the war you want, it's just a matter of time.

Whatever happened to Fukuyama and the end of history?

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2015 2:59 p.m. PST

Winston – "There is no alternative".

Dynaman878917 Dec 2015 3:03 p.m. PST

If it is reasonably plausible then sure. Modern equipment, etc…

kyoteblue Inactive Member17 Dec 2015 3:38 p.m. PST


nnascati Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2015 5:24 p.m. PST

It could be considered SciFi.

skippy0001 Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2015 7:39 p.m. PST

Or even UltraModern ImagiNation. Trumpstadt warring with Clintonia utilising every thing in every bodies' arsenal that doesn't work-Sgt. Yorks to F7U Cutlass.

Cosmic Reset Inactive Member17 Dec 2015 8:32 p.m. PST

I don't really distinguish between modern and ultra-modern outside of TMP. Post WWII to 1989 is "Post War", or "Modern" from about 1990 to present. Set in the future up to about 10 years, limited to real world weapons and physics, and not including a specifically sci-fi elements fall into "Near-future".

Within the bounds of TMP, I understand a real world type conflict, whether fictional or not; to be modern if the setting is over ten years old, to be ultra-modern if the setting is in the last ten years, and to be science fiction if it is set in the future.

Chuckaroobob17 Dec 2015 9:28 p.m. PST

My answer to the original post: Yes it is.

Your mileage may vary.

Martin Rapier18 Dec 2015 12:06 a.m. PST

It is no different to Cold War gone hot, so yes.

PrivateSnafu18 Dec 2015 3:34 a.m. PST

I do find the Modern/Ultra modern cutoffs (dates) as peculiar.

I like to think of post Vietnam to Gulf I (includes the Soviet war in Afghanistan) as a period and the conflicts post 9/11 as another period.

Cold war is not so much a period as it is a status.

coopman Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2015 5:15 a.m. PST

It would be Ultramodern Hypothetical Gaming.

YogiBearMinis Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2015 5:54 a.m. PST

It can't be science fiction, really, unless you make fictional possible advances in science part of the theme. Simply matching up contemporary forces in a hypothetical conflict is just that, hypothetical.

I hate this about historical wargaming--this quest to define what it is and burn the heretics who stray outside the lines. Unless you are refighting an historical engagement, using accurate OOB's and terrain, with a simulationist set of rules, then you are playing a fictional what-if scenario. Everything else then just becomes a matter of degree. Unless you put one side on dinosaurs.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Dec 2015 6:41 a.m. PST

Yes, such what ifs fit in the category.

Unless you are refighting an historical engagement, using accurate OOB's and terrain, with a simulationist set of rules, then you are playing a fictional what-if scenario.

Even that is a hypothetical …

"Wait, that horse was a nose ahead and this one two lengths behind in the actual charge."
"Oh, come on. No one could know that."
"My great-grandfather was there and told me."
"Oh, jeeeeeez, it's the right OOB and stats, and we're trying to play a game here."
"Oh, so you're not opposed to making part of it up, you're just opposed to anyone other than you deciding which parts are appropriate to be made up …"

Martin Rapier18 Dec 2015 6:59 a.m. PST

I think there is a big difference between 'plausible' (Russia vs China, NATO vs Russia in the Ukraine or Poland or Baltic States) and 'what if'/alternate history/fantasy (Russia and NATO vs Japan). The former interests me rather more than the latter.

I shall refrain from commenting on the interesting current NATO+Russia 'alliance' as that presumably sits on the other UM board.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2015 9:13 a.m. PST

In Steel Panthers on the computer, me and a friend played through a North Korean invasion of Switzerland :-)

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP06 Apr 2016 6:11 p.m. PST

I wish.

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP07 Apr 2016 2:30 a.m. PST

ultramodern by a strict definition is something that has not happened yet, or at least barely happened

Ultra: beyond
modern: just now

capt jimmi Supporting Member of TMP07 Apr 2016 11:31 p.m. PST

Nice one Daler !

Cicero Inactive Member09 Apr 2016 6:09 p.m. PST

Anything up to, say, 10 – 15 years hence is o.k.. If your M1A1 has a railgun its scifi. Unless CNN has footage tomorrow of it being tested. I say if it exists in metal, you can use it.

Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP10 Apr 2016 2:43 p.m. PST

Daler – so its wargaming in like half an hour? :)

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