"Planes flown by decade" Topic
21 Posts
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Mute Bystander | 16 Dec 2015 3:27 a.m. PST |
Looking at actual squadron level plus deployment periods. Basically what would have been available for a hot war in: 1) 1950s 2) 1960s 3) 1970s |
Mako11 | 16 Dec 2015 3:38 a.m. PST |
1 – pre-100 series fighters 2 – series 100 fighters, mostly, plus the F4, F8, A4, A5, A6 3 – 'teen series jets, plus the F4 still, plus some carryovers from 2 |
Mute Bystander | 16 Dec 2015 5:48 a.m. PST |
What about non-USA? So 1 ~ First and early/middle Second generation fighters (and parallel attack aircraft) for example? 2 ~3rd generation and late 2nd generation fighters and attack aircraft? 3~ 4th Generation aircraft? |
MajorB | 16 Dec 2015 6:24 a.m. PST |
What about non-USA? You didn't say what nations you wanted information for. |
Jemima Fawr | 16 Dec 2015 6:36 a.m. PST |
After initially operating F-86 Sabres during the 1950s, the West German Luftwaffe received its first F-104G Starfighter in 1960. These soon filled the Interceptor (2 wings), Tactical Recce (2 wings) and Ground Attack (5 wings) roles. The other main type operated from the 1960s was the G-91R1/R3, which filled four Light Attack wings. The Germans ordered F-4 Phantoms in the late 1960s, which began replacing F-104Gs during the early 1970s in the Interceptor and Tactical Recce roles. The Alpha-Jet began replacing the G-91s in the Light Attack role in the late 70s. Tornado began replacing F-104G in the Ground Attack role from the early 1980s. The German Navy also employed two wings of aircraft in the Maritime Stike role. During the 1950s and early 1960s these were Hawker Sea Hawk and Fairey Gannet, but these were replaced by F-104G. The Marine F-104Gs were in turn replaced by Tornado in the early 1980s. |
Martin Rapier | 16 Dec 2015 6:46 a.m. PST |
I've absolutely no idea what a '4th Generation Aircraft' is. In the 1970s the RAF and RN was still flying stuff from the 1950s and 60s- Vulcans Canberras, Harriers, Phantoms, Lightnings, Hunters(!) and some whizzy new stuff like Buccaneer and Jaguar. I believe the last Anson (circa 1940) was decommissioned from active service in 1972. Shackletons (essentially an updated version of the 1945 Avro Lincoln) were still in service until replaced by Nimrod. The Hawker Hunter was also only finally withdrawn in 1971… anyway, a list of types here: link |
Jemima Fawr | 16 Dec 2015 8:11 a.m. PST |
I'll have to dig through the books for the 1950s/60s RAF, but generally wot Martin said. Canberra ceased its traditional bomber role in 1962 or thereabouts. They maintained the Tactical Nuclear Strike roled squadrons in Cyprus, Germany and Singapore, though the Cyprus and Singapore squadrons had gone by 1970. The Germany Strike squadrons were replaced in 1972 by Buccaneer. Canberra then only continued in the high-altitude Photo Recce role, at which it excelled despite its long pedigree (Canberra PR9 has only recently gone out of service!). RAF Buccaneers were mainly roled for Tactical Nuclear Strike (replacing the last Canberra B variants in 1972), with some Buccaneers being allocated to Maritime Strike to cover the UK end of the G-I-UK Gap. During the 80s they generally lost the Nuclear Strike role to Tornado, but became increasingly geared toward Maritime Strike and the new-fangled Laser Designation role for the RAF Germany Tornado squadrons. The RAF's primary interceptor from the mid-1950s was the Javelin. However, these were increasingly replaced from the late 1950s by the Lighting. The last Javelins disappeared in 1969. Phantom appeared in the late 60s/early 70s and initially took both the Air Defence role from Lightning squadrons and Ground Attack from Hunter squadrons. However, they didnt last long in the Ground Attack role, as Jaguar took over that role in the 1970s. Tornado F3 began replacing Phantom in the Air Defence role in the late 1980s. Despite their general replacement by Phantoms during the 1970s, a couple of Lightning squadrons remained until finally replaced by Tornado F3 in the late 1980s. As mentioned above, Jaguar replaced Phantom in the Ground Attack role during the 1970s and also took over the Tactical Recce role. Most Jaguars were in turn replaced by Tornado during the 1980s, though they remained in the Tactical Recce role and in the 'RAF Mobile Force' role to support NATO's Northern Flank in Denmark and/or Norway (the Jaguar's ability to operate off rough strips made it ideal for this role). The first Harrier GR1 squadron was formed in 1969. Another two squadrons followed during the 1970s and then upgraded to GR3. Only three squadrons and an OCU were formed – two squadrons in Germany and a third in the UK. The RN's Fleet Air Arm had Phantoms and Buccaneers through the 1970s, reciving its first Sea Harriers in 1980 (after retirement of Ark Royal). |
Martin Rapier | 16 Dec 2015 9:07 a.m. PST |
Just to add to Jemimas excellent post, once Polaris was in service, Vulcans were retired from the strategic nuclear role and designated as tactical nuclear bombers in 1970 although iirc two squadrons were retained with a strategic role in the eastern Med. Eventually all these were replaced with Buccanears and Tornados with WE177C weapons, replacing the WE177B in the Vulcans. Vlucans freshly equipped with Blue Steel used to fly low over my house in the 1960s, as did Shackletons. Both were quite exciting, but in different ways. We were perhaps a bit more casual about all out nuclear war in those days. So far in my ongoing WW3 campaign, no-one has made recourse to nukes (apart from a couple in the run up to war), but one day all those mushroom clouds I've made will get deployed no doubt. I keep reminding my players to keep nuclear safe levels of dispersion, and so far they bunch up like no-one had even invented MLRS. |
Mako11 | 16 Dec 2015 1:16 p.m. PST |
1 Mig-15, Mig-17, Mig-19 2 Add in the Mig-21 to the above 3 Add in the Mig-23+ The above works for many, generally. Not sure on the Sukhois. My guess is Su-7 and up from the 1960s. Su-17/Su-22+ in the 1970s, but possibly the late 1960s? Unclear on the Su-15 interceptor. |
Lion in the Stars | 16 Dec 2015 3:16 p.m. PST |
I've absolutely no idea what a '4th Generation Aircraft' is. 'Teen series in the US and MiG29/Su27s for the Soviets. Rafale and Typhoon for the Europeans. |
freecloud | 16 Dec 2015 4:17 p.m. PST |
France Ouragan main fighter in early 50's plus Vautour inerceptor, then Mystere to Super Mystere, then Mirage III coming into service in early 60's, Mirage F-1 in 70's, Mirage 2000 in 80's Ouragan main fighter bomber in 50's, replaced by Mystere, then Super Mystere, then Mirage iii/5 then Jaguar in 70's, then Mirage 2000 over 80s Various Ouragan then Mystere then Mirages used for Recce Fouga Magister is jet trainer/light strike in 50's/60's, replaced by Alpha Jet Vautour main bomber in 50's, replaced by Mirage IV over 60's, no bombers per se after that, role taken by Jaguar/ later Mirages Navy used Sea Venom then various upgrades of the Etendard plus Alize anti-sub. Breguet Atlantic for naval patrol 60's/70.s Helos are Alouette 1 ans 2 in 50's, III in 60's, Super Frelon & Puma appear in late 60's and 70's, Gazelle in 70's repaces Alouette III in many roles, also used as Anti Tank/attack helo |
freecloud | 16 Dec 2015 4:33 p.m. PST |
South African Air Force (eg of Western non major power) Fighter – 1950's move from Mustang & Vampire to Sabre, 1960's Mirage III, 1970's Mirage F1, 80's 1st Gen Cheetah Strike – 50's Vampire, Canberra, 60's Buccaneer, Mirage III, 70's Mirage F1, Atlas Impala 2 Light strike Canberra, Mirage used for Recce plus some use of Impala SA keeps older planes going as long as it can so planes introduce in 1 decade last a long time into next Helos – 50's Aloutte II, Westland Whirlwind, 60's Aloutte III, Super Frelon & Puma appear in late 60's and 70' Naval forces – Wasps on Frigates, Shackleton long distance patrol, Piaggio coastal patrol, Buccaneer earmarked for anti-ship work |
Mute Bystander | 17 Dec 2015 9:51 a.m. PST |
You didn't say what nations you wanted information for. True but neither did I limit it to the USA or Europe or NATO-WP either. It was left open and Mako11's answer was fine. I just decided to get more inclusive data and many responded. Thanks to all who have responded. If anyone else has more examples they will be appreciated. I generally have in the past explored games with other nations than the US and USSR, especially other than the Central Front. The Southern Front is oddly attractive… |
freecloud | 18 Dec 2015 10:41 a.m. PST |
Southern Front allows you to get out toys you don't often see, or in different combinations to that usually seen. I have a small Greek force – AMX 30's and M-48's; AMX 30P & M113 & M3 APCs; M24 & M8 Recce |
capncarp | 18 Dec 2015 7:25 p.m. PST |
True Freecloud, but, then again, those tanks were almost always flying nap-of-earth, so odd combinations would have been more likely. ;p |
Jemima Fawr | 19 Dec 2015 2:17 a.m. PST |
RAF of the 1950s & 60s (stuff I didn't cover earlier): The core of the RAF's fighter fleet in the first half of the 1950s was the Meteor F8, with some earlier marks also still in service. Meteor FR5, FR9 and PR10 also replaced Photo Recce Spitfires and Mosquitos during the first half of the decade, though the PR10s were soon replaced by Canberra PR variants, as Canberra could then fly above the rapidly-developing Soviet SAM threat. Meteor NF9, NF11, NF12, NF13 & NF14 took over the Night Fighter role. However, all front-line Meteor fighter units had been replaced by other types by the 1960s. The Vampire served in small numbers as a Fighter Bomber and Night Fighter at the start of the decade, though was relegated to training duties about 1954ish. The Venom (developed from and mainly replacing the Vampire) served as a Fighter Bomber and Night Fighter through the 1950s. The Night Fighter NF2 & NF3 variants were replaced by the Javelin in the late 1950s and the Fighter Bomber FB4 variants were replaced by Hunter by 1962. The Javelin interceptor (designated 'FAW' for 'Fighter All Weather') appeared in 1956, replacing Venom and Meteor Fighters and Night Fighters. However, despite it's marked superiority over those earlier types, the Lightning appeared soon after, which again was superior to the Javelin in almost all respects. Javelin mostly disappeared from the orbat during the early 1960s, with the last squadron being disbanded in 1969, when Phantom came into RAF service. The first two Lightning squadrons became operational in 1961 and Lightning rapidly formed the core of UK Air Defence until being superceded by Phantom during the 1970s. However, the last couple of Lightning squadrons remained in service until the late 1980s, when they were replaced by Tornado F3. The Swift entered service as the RAF's fastest interceptor in 1954 and within a year had been retired from that role due to a spate of accidents. It was relegated to the Tactical Recce role, though was soon replaced in that role by the Hunter. The Hunter entered service as a Fighter in 1954, replacing Meteor, Sabre and Venom in that role. By the 1960s they were being used for CAS missions and with the arrival of Lightning in the Fighter role, Hunters were re-designed as Fighter-Ground Attack (FGA9) and as Fighter Reconnaissance (FR10) aircraft until replaced in these roles by Phantom and Jaguar during the early 1970s. The F-86 Sabre also served briefly with the RAF in large numbers (400+ aircraft), filling an emergency need for a modern, swept-wing fighter from 1952-1958 while home-built modern fighters (Swift, Hunter, Javelin and Lightning) were still under development. At the start of the 1950s, the bulk of Bomber Command was formed by Lincoln piston-engined heavy bombers, supplemented by Canberra jet medium bombers. However, with the introduction of the V-Bombers and increasing numbers of Canberras, the Lincolns were relegated to logistical/recce/training duties by the late 1950s and had completely disappeared by the early 1960s. The B-29 Washington was used in small numbers (a single squadron, I think?) from 1950-53 in the Nuclear Strike role undtil being replaced by Canberra. The Valiant strategic bomber equipped its first squadron in 1955, with eight further squadrons being formed. It replaced Canberra in the strategic nuclear bombing role, though Canberra continued to retain the tactical Nuclear Strike role. With the introduction of the far superior Vulcan soon afterwards, several Valiant squadrons were converted to serve as tankers to support Vulcan operations. However, catastrophic structural problems forced its retirement within ten years, with the strategic nuclear role being taken up by the Victor and Vulcan squadrons of 'V-Force'. The Victor strategic bomber became operational in 1960, with six squadrons becoming operational. However, structural problems forced its early retirement from the bomber role in 1968 and it became a tanker – a role it excelled in until the 1990s. The first Vulcan strateic bomber squadron became operational in 1957, with a further eight squadrons eventually being formed. Following the introduction of Royal Navy Polaris ICBMs in the 1960s, Vulcan was switched to the low-level Nuclear Strike role, supplementing Canberra squadrons already in that role (the Canberras were replaced by Buccaneer, as mentioned earlier). Vulcan also had a secondary conventional long-range bombing and interdiction role (as spectacualrly demonstrated in 1982), though they were finally replaced in that role by Tornado GR1 during the 1980s. |
freecloud | 19 Dec 2015 5:02 a.m. PST |
Ooops lost the plot there :) Hellenic AF mainly used F-84 for ground strike and fighter, then Sabre, then F-102 as interceptor/Fighter and F-104 as strike fighter/bomber, both replaced over 70's/80's by Mirage F-1 (and AMX-30 :D ) I do like that they had Helldivers until the late 50's |
EvilBen | 19 Dec 2015 12:00 p.m. PST |
The B-29 Washington was used in small numbers (a single squadron, I think?) from 1950-53 in the Nuclear Strike role For what it's worth, I have a note here (can't remember where I got it from, so can't vouch for accuracy) that the RAF eventually got 8 squadrons' worth of B-29s: 149 Squadron got them first (in March 1950), followed by 15, 35, 44, 57, 90, 115 and 207. Most went back in 1954, but 90 (Signals) Group kept some until 1959. |
Jemima Fawr | 19 Dec 2015 4:21 p.m. PST |
Cheers Ben! Yes, I had a quick look at the squadron histories for 15, 90 and 207 and they confirm Washingtons. |
Cujoman | 19 Dec 2015 5:13 p.m. PST |
Sweden 1950s: B18/S18 SAAB 18 J9 Seversky P-35A J21/A21 SAAB 21 J21R/A21R SAAB 21R J26/S26 P51D Mustang J28 de Havilland DH 100 Vampire J29/s29 Saab 29 Tunnan J30 de Havilland DH 98 Mosquito NF Mk XIX J32/A32 Saab 32 Lansen J33 de Havilland DH 112 Venom NF 51 J34 Hawker Hunter Mk 50 S31 Supermarine Spitfire PR Mk XIX 1960s: J28 de Havilland DH 100 Vampire J29/S29 Saab 29 Tunnan A32/S32 Saab 32 Lansen J35/S35 Saab 35 Draken Sk60 SAAB 105 1970s: J29/S29 Saab 29 Tunnan A32/S32 Saab 32 Lansen J35/S35 SAAB 35 Draken SF37/SH37/AJ37 SAAB 37 Viggen Sk60 SAAB 105
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Mako11 | 19 Dec 2015 6:50 p.m. PST |
Sadly, no one makes the Tunnan and Lansen in metal, in 1/600th scale yet, but you can get a lot of the other Swedish jets from Oddzial Osmy, and Pico. They are superb sculpts. |
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