"Team Yankee needs 6mm?" Topic

Ok, more info is coming out regarding the units. One formation you may want is a T-72 tank battalion. Book strength is 40 tanks PDF link and the cards can allow up to 31 tanks.

That many on the table needs to be 6mm, right? Or, will points drive you to select 3 tank "companies"?

Have you ever seen a Flames of War game in action?

GHQ has had plenty of post WW2era micro armor available for decades.

At least the 40" range for the M1's 105 would "feel" better in 6mm.

Elmo, I was thinking the same thing. Unless you want a semi-skirmish game, you need to go with 6mm or 10mm for anything other than minor actions. These might not be the right set of rules for true multi battalion games. Winston's point is also valid.

a T-72 tank battalion. Book strength is 40 tanks PDF link and the cards can allow up to 31 tanks.

Have you ever seen a Flames of War game in action?

I played in precisely that sort of game at Historicon this year. IIRC they were T-55s for Arab-Israeli war. They were deployed literally in contact with one another. The mech infantry company in support with their BTRs were similarly dense.

Using the rulebook's 15mm measurements and 6mm figures would look MUCH better wrt unit density.

I have done the same with the Battlegroup rules, it works well, and I shall try the same with TY,

Tally Ho!

I also am playing to do this in 6mm. I purchased some excellent 3mm samples from PICO, but I felt they were too small.
Danny Weitz

I am confused though. It seems that you need to buy the models to get the cards which have all the information on them? I would love to try the game in 6mm, but the card situation has me confused.

Though my rulebook is in the mail, it would appear that the cards are simply stats that are in the book. The cards, basically, a replacement for a QRS.

Judging by the "How to Play" videos on YouTube, the cards function very well as stand ins for referencing the book.

As for the model scale to ground scale differential. Like many (all?) other games, this is required to make them playable. Like the Napoleonics and Ancients I play, I can rationalize the disparity by thinking of the model or stand as an area or ZOC where the unit actually is located.

@thecrazycaptain: Discussed here.. TMP link

XRaysVision hits it on the head. The cards are stats from the book and serve WITH the QRS. You still need the QRS for at-a-glance rule, but the cards save you from digging in the book for unit stats and special rules.

@Mr. Elmo

30+ tanks is a huge game for Team Yankee. From what I've read the basic games are 50-150 points. That's not as much stuff as you would think. The Battlefront gang are building "armies" (formations in the rules) and most of them are around 50 points.

Here's a couple of examples:

T-72 Tank Battalion HQ
1x T-72
5 points

T-72 Tank Company
5x T-72
22 points

T-72 Tank Company
5x T-72
22 points

Total 49 points

link

M113 Mech Combat team HQ
1x M16 Rifle team, 1x M113
1 points

M113 Mech Platoon
3x M249 SAW team with M72 LAW anti-tank, 3x M47 Dragon missile team, 3x M113
5 points

M113 Mech Platoon
3x M249 SAW team with M72 LAW anti-tank, 3x M47 Dragon missile team, 3x M113
5 points

M109 Field Artillery Battery
3x M109
7 points

M901 ITV Anti-tank Platoon Platoon
2x M901 ITV
3 points

M901 ITV Anti-tank Platoon Platoon
2x M901 ITV
3 points

M901 ITV Anti-tank Platoon Platoon
2x M901 ITV
3 points

M163 VADS AA Platoon
2x M163 VADS
3 points

A-10 Warthog Fighter Flight
4x A-10 Warthog
20 points

Total 50 points

link

M1 Abrams Armored Combat Team HQ
1x M1 Abrams
8 points

M1 Abrams Tank Platoon
2x M1 Abrams
16 points

M1 Abrams Tank Platoon
2x M1 Abrams
16 points

M163 VADS AA Platoon
2x M163 VADS
3 points

AH-1 Cobra Attack Helicopter Platoon
2x AH-1 Cobra
7 points

Total 50 points

link

I can see some armies getting pretty big. Check out this BMP 'battalion':

MP Motor Rifle Battalion HQ
1x AK-74 team, 1x BMP-2

2 points

BMP-2 Motor Rifle Company
4x AK-74 team with RPG-18, 3x RPG-7 anti-tank team, 1x SA-14 Gremlin AA missile team, 4x BMP-2

10 points

BMP-2 Motor Rifle Company
4x AK-74 team with RPG-18, 3x RPG-7 anti-tank team, 1x SA-14 Gremlin AA missile team, 4x BMP-2

10 points

T-72 Tank Company
5x T-72 + Mine Clearing Devices
23 points

ZSU-23-4 Shilka AA Platoon
4x ZSU-23-4 Shilka

4 points

Total 49 points

link

By the way, just fielding 21 T72 would set you back 99 points.

Formation HQ with 1 T72: 5 points

Two tank companies with 10 tanks each: 47 points per company totals 94 points.

A full 31 tank Soviet Tank Division battalion totals in at 146 points. That would be a big game there with three full formations for the Soviets

That's not terrible for a 6' by 4' board in 15mm. A more standard 50-100 point force would fit very nicely with tons of maneuver room. So yeah, calling Team Yankee a skirmish game is pretty close to the truth.

I think 6mm would look nicer and have even more room, so maybe it's the way to go if money is a big issue or you really just want to put a full tank or motor rifle regiment on the board! I'm going to do both since I love 15mm. I want a Russian tank pack (the current one with 9 tanks) and a BMP pace with the infantry for my games. Anything bigger than that then I'll go 6mm.

30+ tanks is a huge game for Team Yankee

Is a 150 point game the old 1750 equivalent?

If so, you could get a book tank battalion. The struggle is that 15mm seems too big, 10mm seems ideal but unpopular, and 6mm has you mingling with micro armor hobbyists at the expense of official "Team Yankee" events.

If 50 point games are standard and you're "bath tubbing" 1 tank for a platoon, I guess that's one way to look at it.

I suspect 100pts will be tourament standard for the time being

If 50 point games are standard and you're "bath tubbing" 1 tank for a platoon, I guess that's one way to look at it.

I view it as fielding reduced formation. When Bannon defended Link he had a very reduced Team Yankee:

Two tracks and squads with the mech platoon.
Four tanks in total from the two tank platoons and the command section.

That's a bit less than the minimum force in the game.

Is a 150 point game the old 1750 equivalent?

If 1750 is a big force, then yes. 150 points is quite large although tanks can whittle it down some.

Here's my current planned force and I'm still lagging behind by 30 points!

So at full strength my force will be:

Armored Combat Team (86 points)

Command Team: 16 points
Two line tank platoons: 64 points
Mech platoon: 6 points

Mech Combat Team (12 points)

Mech Command Team: 1 point
2 Mech line platoons: three track platoons for 8 points
ITV platoon: two ITVs with 3 points
ITV platoon: 3 points

Attachments: (31 points)

Cobra platoon (2 Snakes): 7 points
FISTV: 1 point
M109 battery (3 tubes) 7 points
VADS platoon (2 flyswatters): 3 points
A-10 Flight (2 Hogs): 10 points
Mortar Platoon: 3 points

That should give me 130 points.

100 pts to 150 pts is a 50% increase in game. 1500 pts to 1750 is around 17%.

125 pts may be a better match for 1750 like games, but really it's a whole new dynamic where these sort of equivelancies may not be accurate.

I'm running 6mm TY for lots of reasons, and it does look really good, but that's more to do with the terrain than the tanks. We're already playing 1750 in FoW, and what Soviet tank army would dare field _fewer_ than 21 tanks at that point value?

I think the real spam question revolves around infantry: dismounts are far more vulnerable now than they ever were in FoW, and at the same time, cheaper and come with TONS of anti-tank missile carriers. Which they'll need, because I would take 1 M1 against 100 RPG teams every time in this game.

Large infantry formations are far better tar babies in TY though, with the "no morale test to break till down to two models". Haven't read close enough to see if tank terror is in the game mind you.

They're not a very good tarpit though, as vs tanks they can do nothing but fall back turn after turn. Soviets have it slightly better: their RPG-7s can roll 6s to hit, then hope the US player rolls a 1 for armor, then fails to counterattack and gives up the bailed tank. Otherwise it's just auto-fall back like the US.

Or the M1 just drives away by breaking contact. At the same time I can't see any M1 unit wanting to get that close to a full strength MRR company, clever deployment can really screw the yanks.

Apologies, my comments were solely in regards to Sov infantry. I'm still not sure if US mech infantry is of any use.

So, how many points are in the US and USSR boxed sets?

About 50. A nice starting point for an army. I would prefer some infantry in the mix over the choppers, but that's me.

We are getting a ton of orders from new customers- many of them are telling us that they are using our miniatures with TY. We haven't sold this many of the older M1 Abrams, T-72's, Cobras, and Hinds in a long time, they are flying off of the shelves. We have always considered ourselves more of a miniatures company, so we are fine with whatever rules you like to use.

Happy gaming!
GHQ

Another vote for GHQ! They have the most complete product line for moderns and the service is top notch. We have extensive collections of their products and really enjoy them.

I'll mostly be using 6mm for my games but will use 15mm for games when gaming with others.

Keep in mind that we are having a sale of 15% off on all orders over $75.00 USD through January 11th, 2016. Just use the EAGLE discount code. That will make it easier to outfit your Team Yankee forces. ;-)

Thank you for your support,
GHQ

At 100+ points?

Yes, you will need 6mm.

Fewer points?

It would definitely work in 15mm.

But this is all an opinion. I ran 6mm FoW AIW at Historicon. The feedback was very positive from the players and others. I did see the 15mm AIW event at Historicon. The models looked fabulous and it was well run to say the least. But 31 T-55 in close proximity is a bit less than visually pleasing…

There are also other providers out there in 6mm. GHQ is beautiful and awesome looking. No doubt.

However…

I went with Heroics and Ros, which have good detail and a great price point.

Like my post above, an opinion.

I think the only reasonable solution is to game Team Yankee in both 15mm and 6mm (not at the same time of course!)
:)

Not a bad approach…

This was posted in it's own thread, but we thought that this was pertinent on this thread too. Sorry if you have already seen it.

Thank you!
GHQ

There is much discussion around the internet relating to the size of miniatures to use with the Team Yankee rules. A growing number of people are choosing GHQ 1/285th scale Micro ArmourŪ for playing Flames of War. Many people have said that they would switch to 1/285th, but they have already invested hundreds, or thousands, of dollars in Flames of War miniatures. Now people are looking at the same choices in contemplating getting into the Team Yankee rules.

There are some facts that you should be aware of before making that decision.

GHQ developed its Modern armour line in the 1970's under a contract with the Command & Staff College at Fort Leavenworth specifically for the Dunn Kempf game, a tactical and grand tactical game designed to train army officers on how to defend the Fulda Gap from attack by Soviet forces- the same Fulda Gap scenario that inspired the Team Yankee book.

GHQ's line of modern miniatures were designed from highly classified drawings and photos supplied to US Army Intelligence on a "need to know" basis. These were designed at a time when few people even knew what the equipment looked like. The army contacted GHQ because they became familiar with our 1/285th scale line of WWII Micro ArmourŪ miniatures. They liked them, and felt that 1/285th was the perfect scale for wargaming modern warfare.

After supplying the miniatures for Dunn Kempf, we established a long term relationship with many units of the US Army and National Guard units across the country. Many foreign officers attending the international officers school at Fort Leavenworth, and later Fort Leonardwood, came into contact with GHQ Micro ArmourŪ. Over the years since, GHQ has supplied Micro ArmourŪ for training aids to Britain, France, Germany, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Australia, New Zealand, and many other armed forces.

In 1991 during the run-up to Desert Storm, GHQ shipped huge quantities of Micro ArmourŪ to many military units before they deployed, as well as to forces in the field in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Kits were specially prepared for use in the field, carried in Bradley squad leader vehicles for on-site explanations of planned attacks. Some of you may remember footage on CNN of a squad leader deploying the kits in the field using his hands to form miniature terrain in the desert sand and deploying GHQ Micro ArmourŪ, both US and Iraqi vehicles, on the sandtable-like battlefield. GHQ also supplied all of the miniatures used by NBC, CBS, and ABC that were used on-air for demonstrations as Desert Shield turned into Desert Storm.

GHQ has a long and colorful history supplying Micro ArmourŪ to the US Army for wargaming. At the same time that GHQ was developing Modern Micro ArmourŪ Gen. Donn Starry was in command of 5th Corp covering the Fulda Gap. He developed the plans for defending the Gap. He was a big fan of GHQ Micro ArmourŪ, and when he was later put in command of TRADOC (US Army Training and Doctrine Command) at Fort Eustis he was instrumental in getting Micro ArmourŪ in use at training schools all over the country including Fort Benning, Fort Carson, Fort Huachuca, and many others including the Marines.

GHQ makes all of the vehicles used in Team Yankee for the Dunn Kempf game, as well as many others in the 1980's, and has kept current with vehicle introductions by most nationalities since then. GHQ's range of modern vehicles is staggering, and today represents hundreds of vehicles.

The GHQ Modern Micro ArmourŪ is the same line, continually improved, that was used by the US Army in the 1980's to train for the Fulda Gap. You make the choice which line of vehicles, and scale is the most appropriate for modern wargaming. The US military already has.

Thank you,
Gregory Scott, GHQ Founder

TMP link

No Greg,
THANK YOU!!!
Danny Weitz

6mm either 285 or 300 work well for most rules for both WW2 and the Cold War. using the ranges etc for 15 or 20mm also give a good feel at the smaller scale. The question is can the rules work with the larger numbers?

The first Bn on the start line (Not actually deployed yet just to give an idea) – The table is 12 x 6:

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The small scale also allows for the deployment of not standard units:

Bde HQ:

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BG HQ complete with Sqn Ldr's tank with dozer

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Plenty of maneuver space:

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And the rear echelon chaps can make an entrance near some of the excellent buildings available:

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And as alluded to above there is a massive amount of available models, mine are a mix of GHQ and H&R the latter currently producing some new Cold War BAOR stuff, including a Phoenix Drone!

Tally Ho!