"Looking for rules where 1 stand = 1 brigade" Topic

Hi, may I call on your collective wisdom?

I've been trying to collect ACW 28mm for 1:20 rules but it's sunk in that I'll never have enough for a big battle, or the gaming space to do it.

What rules are out there that have 1 stand equals 1 brigade, where the player commands a whole army?

I am prepared to rebase. Just this once. For now.

Volley and Bayonet
Horse, Foot and Guns (not yet published but available on the web)
Probably others…

Polemos ACW fits the bill nicely. link

Volley and Bayonet. 3" square bases.

It won't be done for a bit, but I am also working on an ACW variant of Impetus, based off of the Napoleonic rules. It will also be 1 stand/unit = 1 Brigade, with stands having a 120mm frontage.

Volley & Bayonet is the classic set of rules for this scale – it has a long history and deep support for this level of play, and provides a good feel for the period. Its strengths are a simple and fast maneuver system, a relatively fast combat system that has just enough crunch to reflect troop and weapon differences, and a strong formation morale system. Its weakness – if you consider it that – is that it lacks any sort of real C&C system. If you have multiple players per side and use simple house rules such as written orders and "no table talk", it won't be an issue, but it is entirely left to your own devices.

The "newcomer" at this scale is Altar of Freedom, which uses more abstracted units – instead of V&B's stricter representation of actual men/unit, AoF uses generic units that receive modifiers based on relative strength and quality. Its strength is its C&C system, which relies on a "bidding command points" sort of system, but with a very interesting and well-developed set of commander traits that modify the base system. Its weakness – if you look at it that way – is that the units and weapon types etc. are deliberately more abstracted and less differentiated. They never really explain how they assign the exact unit modifiers, which is a bit of a bother, but on the other hand they have two scenario books that cover pretty much every major engagement of the war.

I suppose the two are almost mirrors – one is weak where the other is strong. My preference is for V&B (with a few house rules of course), as I can manage the C&C on a scenario-by-scenario basis, but those that like C&C to be almost a "mini-game" of its own would probably like AoF better.

Either one would work fine with 28mm figures on big bases.

Cheers,

Christopher

There is an ACW variant of DBN, which I haven't played. Its figure scale can be flexible, but I imagine that it's about 1 stand per brigade.

CATenWolde, you make me want to buy "Volley and Bayonet"!

Another vote for Volley and Bayonet – we use them for battles too big for Fire & Fury

As most here already know, I'm a big proponent of Volley and Bayonet, playing it to the exclusion of almost all other rules for periods from 1750 to 1850. It's exactly what you're looking for and most of the major battles for the ACW have been written up in one place or another. What's your favorite battle? Chances are I've already got the OoB and Map in my files somewhere.

Isn't there a ACW campaign system for V&B? I could swear I got the book somewhere around the house..

Yes, there is a ACW campaign system for V&B. It's based on A House Divded board game. I've been involved in three PBM playings of it.

I'm another Volley and Bayonet fan.

One other practical aspect of the new edition of V&B is that includes a very simple, flexible, and enjoyable scenario generation system. Essentially, each side divides up their army into 3-4 different parts (left, right, center, optional reserve), and then *after* deployment each side draws a card that may remove one or more of those parts for part of the battle, which may then arrive later at various points on the table. Depending on how much your deployment is messed with, you may also receive a victory point adjustment.

There's a bit more to it, but it's a great system for scenario generation, and there is also a very thorough fan-made ACW points system on the V&B web site.

Volley and Bayonet

Another vote for Altar of Freedom. Great game with excellent scenario books.

Thanks a lot, some very informative answers, and there seems to be something of a consensus!

Altar of Freedom! Worth a look. I own both VB and AOF.

Bloody Big Battles:

link

I have Volley & Bayonet and Fire & Fury (and Johnny Reb and Star & Bars), but I've been playing Altar of Freedom and really enjoy it.

Not sure how the basing/density would look with 28mm, however, if that matters to you.

I'm an old time VnB fanboy. Still like the rules. I wore out 5 copies of first edition. But I agree that a lack of Command rules is an issue if you play 4 players or less.

Altar of Freedom have garnered my interest. Watch that Gettysburg video they made. I found it intriguing and immediately bought the rules and the 1st scenario book. I'd love to see a more general 19th century version.

About all you can do on a 3" x 3" base with 28mm minis is to have two ranks of 4 figures.

With Old Glory 28mm, I can get 2 ranks of 6 (12 figures) on a 3"x3" (but I decided 2 ranks of 5 spaces them out a little more). Actually, I can get 3 ranks of 6 but I want some space on the back of the stand for a label and a dice holder so I can track hits without a roster. For cavalry it's 5 figures on a base, 2 in the front and 3 in the back, slightly interlaced (or 3 in the front, 2 in the back). If you don't reserve space for labels, you can get 2 ranks of 3 for cav.

Again, all helpful.

As for setting out 28mms on a 3" base, can I ask, in real life, would the colour party be a) ahead of the regiment's main line b) level with it or c) behind it? And same question for drummers?

In the center of the main line. With 28mm figs on a 3"x3" base you aren't going to have much of a colour (color) party. I usually just put the officer and 1 standard bearer (even if Union) in the front line – sometimes no standard bearer and a musician instead. I you put 2 standard bearers + officer + musician + sergeant then you have you have 50% of your unit being the colour party.

For Volley and Bayonet, I rarely use a flag on either side. With post-Chancellorsville battles, I have the Division flag on the commander's base, and the Corps flag on the Corps commander's base (a mounted figure with the flag.

The only time the colors are out in front is when the unit is advancing, at which point they are 6 paces in advance of the unit. They are in the line when the unit is stationary, and behind the line (six paces) when it is firing.

"The only time the colors are out in front is when the unit is advancing, at which point they are 6 paces in advance of the unit. They are in the line when the unit is stationary, and behind the line (six paces) when it is firing."

– that should be possible to represent on a 3" base, especially for firing and advancing units. I'll give it a go.