"Architects of War" Topic

The Architects of War website is now down with the following message:

Work in Progress

We are making every effort to create the best possible shopping experience for you Please visit us soon.

If they wanted to preserve some(only some) of their integrity they would put out a statement regarding the status of their business.They would also try and put their customers minds at ease as far as their open orders are concerned.
If any of the principles hope to remain as vendors in this hobby they need to do this and quickly.

All looks rather grim – happens, but as others have said, systematically removing all forms of communication rather than explaining the situation to customers, just doesn't fly…. :-(

Honesty would have been a good initial step…

I am a lawyer that has represented clients in failing businesses. Best advice to Barb and company (who always have been great to deal with) is to honestly disclose problem as best you can and attempt to work out concerns with the customer base over long term. Most gamers understand that these businesses operate on a marginal if not nonexistent profit margin, and will cut the vendor a lot of slack. Communication is important.

Disagree with the term non existent profit margin. They are in business like all others. The customer deserves the same treatment from wargame related companies as any other. To put them in a separate category is annoying and wrong.Their obligation is to deliver a paid for product in a timely manner. No more…no less.If they cannot then simply return the money. If a company doesn't communicate(and hides)then they should pay a heavy price. More often than not they don't.

This is heartbreaking. Ernie and Barb were fantastic to deal with. They were great with Perry and Gripping Beast minis. It's really sad to see it all end like this. To all the people that backed the Kickstarter I really do feel bad for you.

Aren't we being a little premature here? While I agree that things don't look good, we don't actually KNOW AoW is going out of business or that Ernie and Barb won't still try to make good on their obligations.

Aren't we being a little premature here? While I agree that things don't look good, we don't actually KNOW AoW is going out of business or that Ernie and Barb won't still try to make good on their obligations.

I hope you're right. I'd love to be proved wrong on this…

Scott, the point is they never should have let it get to this. IMO,the reaction is far from premature.

Actually, if you read the entire kickstarter, it's pathetic. Over two years and pledges were not fulfilled. As late as October 30th, they were offering gift certificates for some of the unfulfilled product.

I really think the US Attorney General should get involved in the whole Kickstarter movement.

I too have an open order with them that I have already paid for. Like others, it was for Perry minis, in my case about $65 USD worth of AWI metals, special order Hessian packs.

While we don't know the circumstances behind this apparent shutdown of their website, it doesn't bode well that since November all communication stopped without explanation, and no effort has been made to process refunds.

What is so ominous about the website is that it looks like someone just picked some generic notification page that doesn't even fit the circumstances. My question is, if you already have a functioning website that was well organized and had an efficient shopping cart for customers, why would you say, "Work is in progress"? Why "we're making every effort to create the best possible shopping experience for you"? That notice would be more applicable to a company that was just starting up and was notifying new customers about construction of a new website.

Of course, if there was some catastrophic medical event, I fully understand and I would not wish that upon any one.

But even so, as a business owner you have to make some sort of provision in the event that the business is disrupted. Someone should have been appointed to put out an explanation email and also to go through all open orders and sort out the refunds.

To just do nothing and then shut down the site without any way of getting in touch with them is wrong.

What will REALLY upset me though, is if this is indeed only a temporary shutdown, is if they just blatantly keep all orders open indefinitely and hold customers hostage, and then six months from now all of a sudden they are back online and suddenly fill all the existing open orders. That will not fly any more than failing to process refunds.

I will add also that this is my first order ever with AOW. It should be said that even before the shutdown of their site, the email communication about my order was not very good.

I had to email about five times before I got any notice about any of the items shipping. For about two weeks the whole order just went into a black hole and then suddenly Ed emailed me and said that part of it was shipping.

When I placed the order on October 21st, I paid immediately with Paypal which was linked to my checking account, so it was a cash sale.

@Baranovich – Goto the All Quiet on the Martian Front kickstarter page and peruse the comments section and updates from Alien Dungeon (aka Architects of War / Robot Peanut Studios). This may answer alot of whats going on behind the scenes. Update #163 from last December is particularly telltale where they state in item #7 in response to backers inquiries of "where the money from KS went", they basically say we spent it all and now have to rely on retail sales to pay for final KS fullfillment. Not an easy task in a niche business when the bulk of your customer base for your main product push are most likely the KS backers that are now, in essence, taking a back seat to the general public. With regards to lack of communication, its all there in the comments section. AD would go many months at a time without any kind of general update, so this precarious exit/media blackout seems par for the course…

I have several things missing from the kickstarter that are and have been available to the public for quiet sometime. I guess now I don't really expect wave 3 to come through and if it does over 2 years to settle when you have had the stuff in stock and selling for over a year is to long IMHO. Don't really understand why you would do this to people that funded your line of minis but live and learn.

generaltso,

Thank you so much for the info, that is greatly helpful!

I had a similar thing happen to me in 2009. I wanted to get into the gaming PC scene, and I made the HUUUUUGE mistake of buying a custom-built gaming PC from a company in California.

My contact guy that handled my sale was awesome, his communication was great and every step of the way he was right there answering all questions and explaining anything I needed.

But about four months in, the PC totally fried because of poor heat ventilation design, and since the company was in California I would have to ship it all the way back to them for a repair. However, in the interim the company completely folded and essentially did an escape in the night, leaving an empty building, paid for orders that never got shipped, and A LOT of angry people. People had pending orders for gaming PCs ranging from $1,500 USD-$2,500 that they had already paid for. You can imagine my sense of horror when I went to their site to find a blank page, followed by a news story of their liquidation and flight from town. My contact guy was stunned as well, and there wasn't a thing he could for me, as he was summarily laid off when the whole thing was shut down.

Essentially I learned my lesson the hard way, when dealing with gaming PCs, either build one yourself or have someone locally build it for you so that logistically you can deal with repairs and issues.

Took me losing $1,200 USD down the drain to learn that lesson. I since have learned how to upgrade and maintain my own gaming PC, building it along side a fellow who charged me for the labor of assembling it but also taught me how to replace and fix pretty much anything.

Live and learn.

The more I read about this the angrier I am becoming.

Here's the thing…if it turns out they knew they would no longer be carrying Perry Minis. and couldn't fulfill any special order items, then WHY THE BLEEP did they still let customers put Perry Minis. into the shopping cart???

Their site had no problem letting me add five Hessian items that all had the same note- Special orders take four weeks- but it said NOTHING about Perry not being available any more!

You DON'T let customers choose an item on your site, let them PAY for it, accept and receive the money, when all the while you never intended to fill any more special order items!

All Perry special order stuff should have been REMOVED from their site! You don't leave them up and allow customers to buy phantom items!!!

Wow…

I am really unhappy with them at this point. As I stated before, I paid them cash at Fall-In. They gave me an exact amount to pay for my order down to the cent. I was told that they had the product I ordered in early October in their hand and would ship it the next business day. I have subsequently found out that they had never placed my order with the company in England, so they did not have my order in their possession. Therefore they lied to me and took my money knowingly.

jefritrout,

That smacks of willful fraud to me not just disappointing.

I only discovered these facts earlier this week, since my last post on the matter.

Has anyone been able to get any information about AoW closing?

Not that I know of – at this point the silence from them is rather deafening…. :-(

I agree, Dom. With several threads on AOW and their problems, their lack of a single response (as far as I can find), speaks volumes.

This feels eerily similar to the end of Maelstrom Games in the Uk – right down to the sale upon sale tqctic in a vain attempt to raise capital to buy stock to fulfill old orders. Essentially a pyrmaid scheme where someone got shafted every time.

From the AQ page on facebook the fan run one.

They are gone, and the Vouchers and Wave 3 shipping was a screen to try and float another KS.

That KS was close to funding when pulled early.

Saying "traction" was missing. Was the reason.

My guess is that was to pay off the last one, then rinse and repeat.

I defended them for well over a year, after things started breaking, but I could not let folks send them money without warning that they had not finished the last one, would hardly talk with customers who had paid them a grand or more upfront.

They may not have started off as a scam, but promising Vouchers, and Wave 3 and the long promised PDF of the rules, right before the new KS launched, smacked of used car dealers.
That none of that happened, shows intent.

I have no idea what has happened, but to say that they were using the unsuccessful kickstarter to try and fund the previous one doesn't hold water. Until they hit their funding goal (which they never did) they don't get any of the pledged money. None of us who pledged to the second (Crush of Iron) kickstarter lost any money.

As a rules manufacturer I hate to see these kind of events and hopefully they will find a way to get themselves back on their feet.

First Command Wargames produces a rule set called for Queen and Planet: The Imperial Wars of Earth and Mars available on Wargame Vault and through links on our website firstcommandwargames.com.

The figures sold for All Quiet on the Martian Front are useable with these steampunk rule set.

Thanks,

Tom

Scott,

I figure you got most of your stuff from them, as you have contracts other than KS with them.

Yes your book will suffer for their misdeeds, more so as you defend them.

They lied, over and over, the last update was all smoke to try and pass the buck to the Next KS.
We were supposed to say nothing and watch them do it again.
Vouchers never sent, product never sent just lies to have us stop talking about the All Quiet KS.

They may not have started out to scam folks, but at some
point they changed, it was never their fault, the backers were blamed for it as well but never AD.

Lee,

Well, you figured wrong. I never received any special treatment in the kickstarter and am still out a number of items.

Believe me when I say that if things turn out to be as bad as it seems, I will be as shocked and hurt as everyone else.

At this point I'm not defending AD, I'm just trying to rein in wild rumors. Like your accusation that they did their Crush of Iron kickstarter to swindle people out of money that they would use to shore up their business. This is clearly false since they voluntarily cancelled the kickstarter BEFORE THEY GOT ANY MONEY. If they were real crooks, why not let the kickstarter reach its goal and then take the money?

No, AD has made some serious mistakes and then behaved very badly in how they handled them, but I don't think they are crooks.

OTOH, I'm not holding my breath to see if they make things right. It's already gone too far for that.

If a company takes your money and does not ship your product what do we call them …I guess we call them crooks…

If they DELIBERATELY take your money without any intention of ever shipping your product then they definitely are crooks. And if we find that this is in fact what happened then yes, we can call AoW crooks. Right now, despite a lot of circumstantial evidence, we don't know for sure.

As numerous people have testified, AoW has provided good, honest service for many years. The All Quiet kickstarter, despite a lot of problems, did deliver the majority of the items they promised. Clearly, they did not start their business or carry it on for all these years with the intention of stealing people's money.

If it turns out that my faith in Ernie and Barb was misplaced (and make no mistake, I AM pissed off right now and for more reasons than I'm going to name) then I will freely admit it here. But until I know for sure I am going to wait.

I think Nazrat brought up a good point….. There was allot of product that did ship out – and it was generally enough to have a playable game. Did AoW ship out everything they promised? Heck no. Are allot of people upset? Yes. Was this handled poorly – yes – especially at the end. Promising vouchers was pretty low.

That being said – I know allot of people are out a considerable sum of money and I feel terrible. However, think about what Barb and Ernie lost – they lost their reputation and allot of friends in the process. Do you think they'll be able to show their face at another gaming convention?

I think they lost allot more than any of their backers did. You can go out and make more money. You can't go out and buy a reputation.

I don't know Barb and Ernie personally so I have no personal biases.. I didn't get burned so I'm not mad at them for keeping my money and receiving no product.
No one on this site or a customer of theirs are mind readers. Nobody knows their intentions. I hate to say this but they have had more than ample time to address these issues that were brought forth and as of now…they haven't.
Regarding their reputation…they are the only ones at fault for that and if I was owed money I would have zero concern for their reputation. I would simply want my money back.
Now if by magic they send out the product owed and or return the money they owe these folks that would go along way to restore whats left of their reputations.Until that happens…well…..

Scott, Did they lose it? Or give it away? They have only themselves to blame here. Let's stay focused on who is at fault here.

Only in wargaming land is "Taking money for product you don't actually have to sell" something that requires debate.

Basically Kickstarter is not a guarantee. Did I pretty much get most of the items promised, yes, there are some that I didn't get, but that is not what has upset me. The whole Kickstarter fiasco seems to have done them in, but does not seem to be criminal

However if you read what I went through, where they physically took my money at Fall-In, for product they said that they had in hand, but in fact had never even ordered from England, That is why I am upset. Scott's definition of a crook seems to apply here.

jefritrout,

I think what they did to you, me and others is probably criminal. They took my money for a Perry special order (two weeks before FI) which they knew they couldn't fill and never returned calls or emails. When I asked at Fall In, Barb said they were backed up with orders and the order may be at their warehouse or still has not arrived so please wait. That was all BS as we have discovered.

It is criminal…can't think of anything else to call it.

Okay, this is interesting! Yesterday (1-11-16) a member of the AQ Facebook group posted this:

*****

8:40pm Jan 11
Interesting turn of events today. During the pre Christmas sale I ordered a grenadier tripod. It arrived with two grenadier legs and a slaver leg. I sent an email less then a week before the website went down and never got a reply. With the company apparently down for the count, I was making plans to swap legs with my unbuilt grenadier and slaver tripods for a reasonable looking mix.

Tonight I got a box from Robot Peanut Studios [Architects of War/ Alien Dungeon] with a complete set of grenadier legs. There was no note in the box. Hoping this is a small sign of life for AQMF.

*****

When asked when the package was shipped and where from, he replied that it was sent December 21st from Greensburg, PA (which is near Pittsburgh where the operation relocated to).

So this is odd! Apparently there is still someone alive at Architects of War. But if they are shipping out stuff, why the communications blackout? Very curious.

One person does not make a case for anything…Money talks…

True, but this would indicate that they haven't just fled the country.

" they haven't just fled the country"

True but… it IS Pittsburg. ;)

So this is odd! Apparently there is still someone alive at Architects of War. But if they are shipping out stuff, why the communications blackout? Very curious.

Maybe the stress was too much and they had to step back for a while. If they started answering emails they would probably be doing nothing but answering emails. Hopefully they're coming back to life…

Yes,that could be true King…but who created the stress?
Thats probably what they should be doing and thats answering emails.
I know I don't have a dog in this fight but it just galls me to see fellow wargamers taken advantage of in this way…and it bothers me more to see AOW defended.

and it bothers me more to see AOW defended.

Oh, don't get me wrong – far from defending them. I was offering an explanation as to what might have happened.

I realize they created their own mess. But I'm slightly hopeful AoW will attempt to make good on their commitment.

Wow!Where have I been.I went to go on their site today and was shocked to find them out of business.I didn't know this was going on.It's a shame really as they had nice items.Reminds me of the guy who ran Michigan Toy Soldier company a few years back.They offered so much product that they didn't have the money to buy it all so he used customers cc to buy product.The most glaring was $100,000 USD on Peter Jackson's.Guy did some prison time.
Mark

On the plus side Marco, a new company called Ironclad Games has purchased the game and is starting to produce the miniature line again. Check them out here:

quietmartianfront.com

On the plus side Marco, a new company called Ironclad Games has purchased the game and is starting to produce the miniature line again. Check them out here:

Ummmm. Yea. Burn me once – shame on you. Burn me twice – shame on me.

Totally different people, albeit also a new venture

I can certainly understand your trepidation TheKing30, although I feel it would be fair to give Ironclad a chance to prove themselves. They've been very forthcoming with information on the unofficial AQotMF fan forum.