"Did the Bundeswehr field the Leopard 2 in 1985?" Topic

I will be fielding a Bundeswehr unit for the Cold War gone Hot. QRF will be my source for the West Germans and they should be hitting my house this week. Before I go and buy any armor did the Bundeswehr field the Leopard 2 in large numbers or a mix of old Leopard and new.

Hi Irish,

Yes, while I don't have an exact date for the first operational front-line Leopard 2 unit, the first Leopard 2s entered service in training units in 1979 and around 800 Leo 2 and 2A1, as well as the first 2A2 had been built by the start of 1985. I've also got some photos of Leopard 2 on exercise in 1982/3. Even the Leopard 2A4 was on exercise in January 1986.

I believe the "2" was being deployed in 1980 by West Germany and a lot of the other NATO members had deployed them by your '85 scenario.

I don't know the ratio of "1s" to "2s".

Very Cool thanks.

Short answer, yes a mix.

By the end of 1985, all of the Panzer Brigades in Panzer Divisions were Leopard 2 equipped, except for those of 10. Pz Div (28. Pz Bde got them in 1988, 29. Pz Bde in 1986/87), which were Leopard 1A4. 24. Pz Bde of 1.Gbj Div was also Leopard 2 by this time.

The Panzer Brigades of 5. Pz Div (14. and 15.) were the in the process of converting in 1985, so concievably they could be Leopard 1 still in your 1985 timeframe.

Of the Panzer Brigades in PzGrn Divisions, some had converted by this point (33. Pz Bde of 11. PzGr Div; 12. Pz Bde of 4. PzgGrn Div), and some were later (6. Pz Bde of 2. PzGrn Div in 1985/86; 18. Pz Bde of 6. PzGrn Div not until 2002!).

The PzGrn Brigades were all Leopard 1 (mostly A1A1) at this point (30. PzGrn Bde of 10. PzDiv was 1A3), as were HSB 51 and 56. The other HSBs were all M48A2GA2.

Long-winded answer to your question, hope that helps.

The first operational Leo 2 unit was 9. Pz Lehr Bde of 3. Pz Div in 1980.

All the info above is excellent (yes, 1979/1980).

Thanks for sharing.

As a bonus, you can use those figures for Danes pretty well too :-0

The Dutch used the Leopard 2 as well. Was not aware the Danes used it.

In the interest of adding to the collective knowledge, I forgot to mention that 6. PzGrn Div had all Leopard 1A2 (in 18. Pz and 16. and 17. PzGrn Brigades), and did not upgrade until the end of the Cold War (or even after).

Denmark doesn't get it until the mid 90's, mind. So might have to have gorbachev hand in there a bit longer.

The question of the ratios of 1s to 2s got me thinking, so I did some back of the envelope numbers. In 1985, I figure (does not include HSBs):

-104 Leo 2 companies(~60%)
-68 Leo 1 companies (~40%)

And in response to Irish Marine's M113 vs Marder question:

-158 Marder companies (~84%)
-30 M113 companies (~16%)

Here are some notes on Leopard 1/2 in service dates by brigade originally posted by Mark Bevis on the Yahoo T0&E group forum in 2011. Taken from his MicroMark lists G167M and G168M:

2nd Panzer Brigade: Leopard 2 (1981), Leopard 2A2 (1985), Leopard 2A4 (1991).
3rd Panzer Brigade: Leopard 2 (1982)
6th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 2A1 (1985), Leopard 2A4 (1988)
8th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 2 (1981), Leopard 2A2 (c1985)
9th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 2 (1980)
12th Panzer Brigade: M48A2GA2, Leopard 2A1 (1983)
14th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A3 (1983), Leopard 2A3 (1985)
15th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 2A1 (1985)
18th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A2, Leopard 1A5 (1990)
20th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 2A1 (1983)
21st Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 2A1 (1983)
24th Panzer Brigade: M48A2, Leopard 2 (1982)
28th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A4, Leopard 2A4 (1988)
29th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A4, Leopard 2A3 (1986-7)
33rd Panzer Brigade: Leopard 2 (1982)
34th Panzer Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 2A1 (1984)
36th Panzer Brigade: M48A2GA2, Leopard 2A1 (1984)

During the late 1980s the Leopard 2, 2A1, 2A2, 2A3 were upgraded to 2A4 standard.
105mm L7 guns have DM23 FSAPDS, DM23A1 from 1983, DM33 from 1984, and DM128 from 1985.
120mm smoothbore has DM13 FSAPDS, DM23 from 1983, and DM33 from 1987.

1st Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 1A5 (1987)
4th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1
5th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 1A5 (1989)
7th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 1A5 (1989)
10th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: M48A2GA2, Leopard 1A1 (1983)
11th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: M48A2GA2, Leopard 1A1 (1984)
13th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 1A5 (1990)
16th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: M48A2GA2, Leopard 1 (1982), Leopard 2A4 (1992)
17th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: M48A2GA2, Leopard 1A1A2 (1982)
19th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 1A5 (1989)
22nd Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1, Leopard 1A5 (1990)
30th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A3, Leopard 2A4 (1989)
31st Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1A1 and 1A1A2, Leopard 1A5 (1988)
32nd Panzer Grenadier Brigade: Leopard 1A1
35th Panzer Grenadier Brigade: M48A2GA2, Leopard 1A1A2 (1983), Leopard 1A5 (1989)

Hope you find them useful