"Soldat is Dead" Topic

"I'd love to sit here and debate the cover, artwork, etc. but we both know it is being graded on the artist not the work"

Thats just NOT true, I actually like BME aka BJ, even though we sometimes scream at each other. But this artwork is just bad. I don't want to make anyone feel bad, but somebody missed anatomy class, skipped composition 101 and totally flunked shading and environment.

To me It really illustrates the problem with computer "art" people think they can make a bunch of inidivual models and textures and then just paste them into an image and it'll work. It doesn't. and yes, I can do better, Pencils, Oils, Acrylics, Inks, Watercolor, Photoshop, Poser - you name it.

Ed, if you really need artists - I will be contacting you shortly.

Stumer - I meant get you to play the game.
Gloira- Like I've mentioned before I've used four or five different artists and are always looking for more.
Ed

Can this artwork that's being debated be seen anywhere on line?

to 'semi-hijack' this thread...though it's related to soldat/poser/artwork...sort of....

I finally found a program/site that features computer renderings of a GREEN ORION WOMAN...(also her as normal 'nude'...(WARNING-this site contains NUDE...computer art representing women who don't exist....)
link:
link

anyway...I know NOTHING about using poser, any other kind of graphics/computer art software...but if any of my chums here on TMP can do something with the 'cutouts'? or whatever it is...and help me with reworking her as a CHARACTER for a STAR TREK RPG...etc...I would appreciate it...(can even share some minis for your efforts???)...
just let me know at: pondman1955@yahoo.com after you check out the site and see the cut and paste stuff ??? or 'skins' or whatever they call it...

'I don't know if it's ART...but I like it'-the Joker

Speaking of art...is using commercial armatures for greens the same as using poser, et al for any computer generated art??? I sorta liked the artwork for ATZ...even though I don't play zombie games...

I'm sure there are better artists out there and worst...(myself among latter group, *sigh*), but if it 'works'...why 'fix' it...

I've seen folks do marvelous things with a 'etch-a-sketch'...leggos and even cut-up credit card bits....! (how about that chap that sculpts stuff in the eye of a needle?????

While I have committed the 'sin' of buying a book/game, etc JUST for the cover...I've also bought items DESPITE the cover...based on content...just some things to 'toss out'...

Now, can we get back to my 'naked green orion slave women' please???? (and yes, I'm still working on pinning down the Planet Mudd too....)

Carpe' Dilitium,
DWW

DWW,

Those skins are made to be used on a specific, proprietary (i.e. "you have to buy it") model, in the program Poser which again needs a purchased licence...surely a far better option is to recolour a photo of a real girl? Apparently such photos are available on the internet in one or two places.

All you have to do is change everything to green and then correct the eyes, lips etc. Probably a five minute job in Photoshop or free software like Gimp, and the result will be much more natural than anything you can do in Poser (as others have been painting out, that program is basically only good for making a 'pose model' - you still have to paint the thing by hand to make it look any good - but Poser removes the need to pay a life drawing model by the hour).

Besides, learning how to use a graphics program is easier and more productive than learning how to use a 3D program. The search for a good base image to use might even be fun.

"Speaking of art...is using commercial armatures for greens the same as using poser, et al for any computer generated art??? I sorta liked the artwork for ATZ...even though I don't play zombie games..."

My feelings as well Dave.
BTW - My painter sent me 5 more painted figures for a total of seven. How would you like to proceed? Let me know, Ed

ed@twohourwargames.com

This is great! Soldat, which I always thought of as a gaming neverland anyway, comes on with some sour grapes whining and ends up with two pages of advertising ATZ

Way to go Ed!

:D

Er, Ed...there is NO-WHERE for 'us' to 'proceed'...DGUSA website and all links/images etc, is not long for this world. We are ONLY selling stuff thru ebay auctions/ebay store. The website will be 'gone' shortly...and sales/etc have been discontinued for some time.

We are not 'actively advertising'...nor 'linking' to anyone or anything, anymore. Too many things went 'wrong'...and it became 'not fun' anymore...so we 'stopped'. Also, we do either own or control all our 'masters' and Guille did let me know you contacted him, by the way. He is a dear FRIEND...

All the folks I work with now...are strictly 'cash on barrelhead'...no 'speculative/reciprocal' aggeements...so money UP FRONT...'talks'...otherwise??? nada..

Leatherneck Bugstompers masters have been at moldmakers for some time...and are now in the process of being WIM'd and then brassed. In short...I'm STILL doing them...but NOT in conjuction with any ESTABLISHED game system or company as we'd once TRIED.

As time/budget/health permit...a production pewter mold will be done...(hopefully soon) and the two people who did pre-pay and decided to 'stick it out' because they believe in us...will get the first two sets made.

Then a set to each of the sculptors and the rest will go up on ebay, (as are all existing stock left over from last year's Origins ), and ALL NEW RELEASES to come...(and there are several...), will show up on auction side first...and then be featured on the store site. Guille is a 'partner' in that end of things...and will be paid his 'royalties' based on figures sold...as we'd already worked out...long ago.

We plan to do about 20 'sets/runs' of each new item we add to the store...and only run more when others sell out....as we can afford/have time to do it.

What folks see there is what we have...and how many and prices, etc...no haggling, no muss, no fuss and no more putting up with nitpicking/whining and deals that end up being 'one-sided'...

Your ATZ artwork and concept look interesting...and if, as an ordinary 'gamer/customer' I order something...that is fine. But we/I don't do 'deals' or 'freebies' or endorsements or links or reciprocal agreements with ANYONE...any more. I'm just a simple 'ebay seller'...period.

Too much has happened to us/me and others have 'come thru' with way too little, too late, so like weak links in a 'chain'...it all fell apart. So we got rid of the 'chains'.

The 'freebies' we sent you last...are the LAST you will ever get from us. As you say, repeatedly on your site...ANY miniatures can be used with your games...ANY.

So what you (or anyone else), might or might not list, what images/examples you use or not...are up to you.

But I would caution folks that they don't try to buy any masters, WE've COMMISSIONED or made deals for, out from under me by contacting those I've worked with. The folks still working with me, are very LOYAL and OUR deals are 'solid'. 'nuff said?'

What I say as a 'person/potential customer/miniature collector' is just that. No 'professional endorsements' are being made or should be inferred, etc. I was just saying that as 'me'.

Personally I really DO wish you and THW 'good luck' on your future endeavoers...as a collector/gamer, period...just as I wished BME and a few others along the way, 'good luck' also. No other sentiments, meanings or endorsements, etc...are intended or should be implied.

'For the record'...DGUSA as a company/endorsee, source of freebies, links or whatever else....is 'gone'...(though the dream remains)...and now I'm just a personal collector who happens to have an ebay store where I sell off excess stock and occassional new castings of various scifi figs...and toys and my wife's custom jewelery.

I hope Dave at Soldat? and THW get together on the greens/when/if he gets them...and BJ and the other artists here do manage to work something out with THW. The more images, the more games...the more miniatures...can only be good for the game industry and collectors in the long haul...and that is what I DO 'support'...with my buying dollar.

Nothing more, nothing less...and as to the 'Green Orions'...yes, there is a site that features REGULAR actresses who've been 'Orion-ized'??? in photoshop? or whatever...I have the links...but that isn't what I wanted...

Oh well, I'm NOT into computer graphics...etc...but I can still sculpt and 'modify' existing bits...so I will do my 'green orions' in mini...if nothing else...

Good Luck Ed/THW....'other' Dave, BJ, et al....

Carpe' Diem,
DWW

Hi David,
When you decided to terminate our agreement you asked that I leave the details off of TMP. I have and will leave it at that.
Ed

I don't think the cover art is all that great, but I couldn't care less. Ed writes some of the best rules out there, and ATZ is no exception.

Hmmmm, now what was that old saying... something about "judging a book by it's cover?"

Ed,

Perhaps, in retrospect, I really shouldn't have said ANTHING at all in regards to your painted figure inquiry. I do tend to get 'wordy' sometimes hence my 'handle'.

I was simply 'responding' to comments about the art for ATZ and the Soldat issue...as an 'ordinary TMP' member...that was all.

I didn't think it had ANYTHING at ALL to do with the FORMER agreement that DGUSA/THW had...so I didn't understand why you added that comment in the first place.

Maybe this is what I SHOULD have responded to that comment...
*****************************
'Ed, if you recall, our 'agreement', (such as it was), was totally AND permanently terminated some time back, and I also explained to you in EXTREMELY precise detail at that time, WHY. We wish nothing further to do with you professionally or THW as a business. We have no affilations, links, further agreements or financial/legal obligations TO or WITH you...in any way, now or ever again.

So there would be NO need for any further 'questions' or comments as to why it was terminated or further inquiries from you about anything pertaining to it. It is a 'dead' issue, so leave it and us/me ALONE.'
*********************************************

Consider yourself lucky...at least you got some nice freebie figures, which you paid someone else to paint up for YOUR personal collection. What you do with them is YOUR business...not ours. We owe you nothing....

So, there's really NO-WHERE for 'us' TO proceed, contrary to what your comment implied.

If you want to continue the 'issue' further here on TMP or via email, etc...that is your choice but it will be 'one-sided'. I'm DONE with it...

THW is still going and has it's 'own thing' to do, and we wish you the best of luck with it. Just leave me/DGUSA out of it and leave me alone, from now on and we'll all be fine.

How much more 'clear' can I be, or do I NEED to be?

GOODBYE and Good Luck!

DWW

David,
This is the PPal receipt for the figures I received.
Paypal receipt(ID #8YX61970KE8138006)
Good luck
Ed

Curses!!! Now that it's dead we have a huge void for a be-all-end-all answer to any question ever asked about miniatures games on TMP.

well, well, well!

i think i done been here before!

BME, in the past offended me personally with some of his antics, but he has come through for THWG and Ed for ATZ .

the cover, LOL, the cover, the cover, the cover!

man this dance went on about the EURO version of GUNS AND GIRLS cover . . . .

well, for all of those who do not know anything about ATZ, except for the cover art, let me tell you something, loud and clear.

i have the ATZ rules in my own sweaty hands, and as a fan of THWG in general, CHAIN REACTION, and CHAIN REACTION2 in particular (also a play testor of both), i just want to say that ATZ is one of a kind as far as zombie busting games go!

nothing else can touch it in my opinion.

anyone OUT THERE that blows off the rules because of the cover art, well, your loss . . . .

me? i am gonna play ATZ and have fun, no worry about the cover art affecting game mechanix . . . .

and for the record, i like this cover, but, suggested it be toned down so as not to offended those OUT THERE who might be put off by the cover art . . . .

again, if y'all want to play tabletop zombie games, solo or with live folks, and have fun, ATZ is the way forward . . .

if not, go with wotcher got on hand and have fun, too . . . .

DAWGIE

Wait a second. We're talking about a game where people are dying, raising from the dead, killing living humans and eating them without regard to who they are (parents, loved ones, etc.) and in turn being killed by said living humans, yet people are complaining about a cover that flashes a little skin? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Good stuff. I dunno but IMHO I'd think the content would disturb more people than the cover (neither of which bother me, and I fully plan to pick the game up come payday), but maybe I'm just nutty that way.

Heck, if anyone's really offended by it, I guess there's always SOLDAT! Oh, wait... ;)

Baddawg6, your writing style seems familiar. Do you happen to know anyone involved in the project?

Artemis,

If you are implying that Baddawg6 is actually BME, I can assure you he is not.

He's a frequent poster on the Two Hour Wargames Yahoo group, as well as a number of other Yahoo groups I am on. I don't want to compromise another TMP member's privacy, but I know enough details about him to be certain he is not a sockpuppet for BME or Two Hour Wargames.

ME?

A SOCK PUPPET FOR BME OR THWG?

(SOUND OF LARGE MIDDLE AGED MAN FALLING OUT OF CHAIR, THRASHING ABOUT AND LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY ECHOS AND RE- ECHOS THROUGH CYBER SPACE)

MAN, FOLKS HAVE ACCUSED ME OF BEING A LOT OF THINGS DURING MY LIFE, BUT, BEING A SOCK PUPPET IS A NEW ONE!!!!!!!!!!

(MORE UNCONTROLLED LAUGHTER, AS WELL AS WHEEZING FOR BREATH AND BLOWING NOSE TRAVELS THROUGH CYBERSPACE)

SOCK PUPPET?

ME, MAN, I STAND UP AND BITE WHEN I AM OFFENDED, AND I AM KNOWN TO HAVE A VERY SHORT FUZE WHEN OFFENDED!

BUT, LOL, THIS IS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST THINGS ABOUT ME THAT I HAVE EVER READ ON THE WWW!

I CANNOT BE OFFENDED BECAUSE I AM LAUGHING SO DAMNED HARD . . . .

SOCK PUPPET . . . LOL . . . RIGHT . . .

DAWGIE

PROJECT?

WHICH POJECT?

SOLDAT OR THWG RULES?

MORROW PROJECT?

I WAS ON THE SOLDAT GROUP FOR A BIT, THEN LOST INTEREST AND MOVED ON . . .

I HAVE BEEN A SOLID THWG RULES USER SINCE I GOT BUGS! AND SIX GUN SOUND.

I PLAYTEST THWG RULES WHEN ASKED TO DO SO . . .

I GOT BOUNCED FROM THE MORROW PROJECT GROUP FOR REFUSING TO MARCH IN LOCKSTEP, AND TOLD THE OWNER HE WAS MY FAVORITE ONE EYED MODERATOR . . .

CROSSED SWORDS WITH TIM PETERSON OVER THE DIRECTION BACK OF BEYOND WAS GOING (TURNED OUT I WAS CLOSER, AT THE TIME, TO WHAT COPPLESTONE WAS THINKING THAN TIM WAS)

PO'ED THE OWNER OF THE MILITARY MODELLING LIST WHEN I TOOK OFFENSE AT HIS CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE TOWARD ME, AS WELL AS SOME OTHER JERK WHO THOUGHT HE COULD TALK DOWN TO ME.

BECAME REAL UNPOPULAR WITH THE VOR LIST BECAUSE I WARNED THEM THE COMPANY WAS ON THE EDGE OF FAILURE, AND THE FANBOYS WERE RUNNING OFF FOLKS WHO HAD OTHER THOUGHTS ABOUT VOR GAMING THAN THEY DID . . .

I HAVE GAMED USING AMOST EVERYTHING FROM DINOSAURS TO STARSHIPS AND STARHIP TROOPERS SINCE I GOT INTO MINIATURES IN THE 1970S.

AND WHEN I HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT RULES, MINIATURES, RULES WRITERS,DEALERS, GAMERS, I AM NOT SHY ABOUT SOUNDING OFF WITH IT - IN PERSON OR ON THE WWW .
. .

I AM ACTIVE ON AROUND 100 YAHOOGROUPS AS OF THIS DAY.

I AM ONE OF THE MOST REAL LIFE PEOPLE YOU WILL EVER COM ACROSS ON THE WWW . . .

I SPEAK MY MIND, DEFEND MY FRIENDS, OFFER HELP WHEN SOME ONE ASKS FOR IT (MOST OF THE TIME - SOMETIMES I AM JUST TOO BUSY TO HELP, OR AM DOWN WITH MEDICAL PROBLEMS).

I AM WHAT I AM. TAKE ME AT FACE VALUE OR BLOW ME OFF, YOUR CHOICE, NOT MINE.

DAWGIE, WHEEZING AND LAUGHING STILL . . . .

Thanks for clarifying that Dawgie, and good to see you're still here on TMP, however...

Could you stop shouting? I mean, leave the caps lock key off so my eyes don't water when I read your posts? Thanks! Now I think I need some sleep.

I would also like to publicly apologize on behalf of everyone (including myself) for the hijacking of this thread that Soldat started, that turned into a debate of THWG's new Zombie game, the cover of said, and everything BME related. This was unfair to Soldat (even though he did mention BME first), and my condolences on your retiring the game you tried to get published. I wish you the best of luck on your next project, and hope that you use this as a learning experience.

OOOOPS!

STUMER, i forgot to shift down. i try to remember to do it, but sometimes i just plain foroget too do so.

you see, both the EMAC and the WEBTV are always set for caps because :

a. i ave an auntie who lives alone across the county from me, and she is vision iimpaired, so caps and big screen allow her to read emails. i do not even notice the caps thing.

b. when i first came to the www, i discovered myarthritus acts up, sometimes, very painfully, so i used all caps as the comfortable way to type instead of trying to use proper upper/lower case letters in my compositions.

c. i started using all lower case most of the time as this works fine for me too, but, like i said, the box is set for all caps and i do no even SEE all caps. too me it is normal.

d. all my working life, subjects, locations, dates, and names were required to be in all caps for offense reports and etc.

DAWGIE

Goodness, what a mess of posts about some largely unappealing issues.

FWIW, I very much like THW rules, but have zero interest in Zombies. The art however, in keeping with THW generally, is really very poor. No, I can't do better but I am not an artist, but this doesn't prevent me knowing what is good and bad art! I do know a number of artists who could though.

Perhaps Ed needs an volunteer art director?

Good to see Dawgie enhancing the boards as usual with his homespun charm.