"Going Once...Going Twice...HOST up for Auction" Topic

"The Host is Toast" – LOL

The convention center in Wilmington DE, literally right off I-95, now has an attached Westin hotel, plenty of space and lots of food in walking distance, just sayin…..

I heard their lighting was miserable, thus why the MFCA show left some years ago to return to the VFCC.

Good rhyme. :-)

How likely is a venue with attached casino to bring in a bunch of tightwads who are not likely to gamble?

Yes the Wilmington Convention Center is huge and easily accessible right off I95.
link
Major highway access includes I-95, I-495, I-295, and the New Jersey Turnpike / Delaware Memorial Bridge.
Free parking. Brand new hotel adjacent.

Otto, it doesn't matter if it wasn't your idea you still proposed it.

I didn't propose it. I wanted historicon back up in Lancaster. I'm simply saying that will be the outcome of all this. I made the observation that is what the BOD has wanted to do for years and that is what will be done.

Otto

4,000 Quatloos on the Newcomers!

One big question on these alternate facilities – Wilmington mentioned here and Wildwoods cited in the other thread. Are they Union? If so, they are non-starters. Unless, of course, you don't want a vendors hall.

Most of our vendors are operating on a low enough margin that having to pay for 32 hours of union labor for two guys to sit and watch them set up and take down their displays is not acceptable.

Remember, it was the surprise unionization of the Baltimore Convention Center that led to the cancellation of Historicon at that site.

If the VFCC is a viable site, then why did Historicon have to move down to Fredericksburg?

As for the Wilmington site, if this is the one:

link

33,000 sq feet of meeting space. Less than half what the Host has.

We are unlikely to ever find a venue as accommodating and affordable for us as the Host has been. Those cheering its decline may well rue the day that it is lost as it is likely to spell an increasingly rapid decline of HMGS. When the Host is lost the organization will be faced not only in finding a new location but with finding its true soul as well.

The move of Historicon from Lancaster severely damaged the spirit of camaraderie in the organization and left a bad taste in the mouths of many of us who have been very loyal to the Organization.

What has kept us from abandoning HMGS altogether has been the personal friendships and relationships nurtured by many pick-up games over the years. This informal atmosphere that the Host allowed to flourish has always been the real drawing card of the Cons. Especially with availability of online shopping.

From what I have heard there is no such bevy of late night non-pel gaming at Fredericksburg.

In any event if this should play out to be the Swansong of the Host, then we should be treating the old gal with reverence rather than disdain. Like old sailors who see thief ship honorably sunk to create an artificial reef. The vessel herself perhaps is just and inanimate object but those who manned her and made her hum (as we have flooded the halls and dealer area of the Host) created a living thing a time and an essence that cannot be duplicated but merely remembered the future reunion gatherings.

These are the tales those merry guests
Told to each other, well or ill;
Like summer birds that lift their crests
Above the borders of their nests
And twitter, and again are still.

These are the tales, or new or old,
In idle moments idly told;
Flowers of the field with petals thin,
Lilies that neither toil nor spin,
And tufts of wayside weeds and gorse
Hung in the parlor of the inn
Beneath the sign of the Red Horse.

And still, reluctant to retire,
The friends sat talking by the fire
And watched the smouldering embers burn
To ashes, and flash up again
Into a momentary glow,
Lingering like them when forced to go,
And going when they would remain;
For on the morrow they must turn
Their faces homeward, and the pain
Of parting touched with its unrest
A tender nerve in every breast.

But sleep at last the victory won;
They must be stirring with the sun,
And drowsily good night they said,
And went still gossiping to bed,
And left the parlor wrapped in gloom,
The only live thing in the room
Was the old clock, that in its pace
Kept time with the revolving spheres
And constellations in their flight,
And struck with its uplifted mace
The dark, unconscious hours of night,
To senseless and unlistening ears.

Uprose the sun; and every guest,
Uprisen, was soon equipped and dressed
For journeying home and city-ward;
The old stage-coach was at the door,
With horses harnessed, long before
The sunshine reached the withered sward
Beneath the oaks, whose branches hoar
Murmured: ?Farewell forevermore.?

?Farewell!? the portly Landlord cried;
?Farewell!? the parting guests replied,
But little thought that nevermore
Their feet would pass that thershold o?er;
That nevermore together there
Would they assemble, free from care,
To hear the oaks? mysterious roar,
And breathe the wholesome country air.

Where are they now? What lands and skies
Paint pictures in their friendly eyes?
What hope deludes, what promise cheers,
What pleasant voices fill their ears?
Two are beyond the salt sea waves,
And three already in their graves.
Perchance the living still may look
Into the pages of this book,
And see the days of long ago
Floating and fleeting to and fro,
As in the well-remembered brook
They saw the inverted landscape gleam,
And their own faces like a dream
Look up upon them from below.

---- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:Tales Of A Wayside Inn

historygamer,

I stand corrected, as last I heard the All Star Complex was scheduled for demolition, as the owners wanted to open the property for sale to a commercial interest. However, the local council squashed the idea because the Farm House & Barn which sits along Emmittsburg Road is now on the National Registry of Historic Places.

Maybe it was all part of the former idea of building a Casino on that site, which was stopped by the county and the State!

Oh, and for millercop!

I'd be happy if all three HMGS shows stayed OUT of VA!! If for no other reason then not having to endure further threads on this site about what an evil plot moving Historicon to Fredericksburg was/is, or shall be in the future!

Should the VFCC become the only viable option I've no doubt it will be a very expensive one, and a another move this late in the game is likely to hurt many in the process! History has proved that in the past!

Those cheering its decline may well rue the day that it is lost as it is likely to spell an increasingly rapid decline of HMGS. When the Host is lost the organization will be faced not only in finding a new location but with finding its true soul as well.

Or just with finding its wallet. I suspect that the decline of the Host and the decline of HMGS are coincidental, albeit similar, and for similar reasons.

@ Gil Bates…

Well said!

VFCC was left because they closed it to build the casinos – and it lost floor space. Back then Hcon needed that space, but now…. maybe not.

Scrambling now for a March date is rather problematic at a big facility like the VFCC. Maybe, maybe not. My guess is the Ike is wide open. I say that recognizing all its shortfalls.

I have heard of some of the alternatives being looked at. Won't out them, but maybe.

And you all laughed at the people who a few years ago trumpeted "Take it to the NEXT LEVEL!" Including he who must not be blamed. They were right. It is being taken to the next level. oblivion.

My fond memories of the Host include Larry Brom and the Colonial room, and that is it. The rest of my memories include terrible games that had never been playtested, being sick and puking my guts out, playing games where we got to finish 2 turns, puking my guts out, getting clubbed like a baby seal in a tournament by a couple of pros,having a terrible headache from getting dehydrated from puking my guts out, traveling cross country to play in a couple of games and those games being cancelled, etc.

So when they ask for volunteers to throw the first torch on the Host I will gladly step forward and add a can of gas to it free.

Like I said, if you cant sleep and eat at where you play, then don't play there.

@Gil Batss
Well said, and thanks for the sentiment.

I found myself feeling a little down last night at what is, most likely, the passing of an era.
A lot of good times were had, and a lot of friends were made within the Hosts walls. I only wish we had known at Fall-In so I could have tried to take it all in a little more and appreciate the experience one last time.

@doug redshirt
Sounds like you have a bigger problem with your fellow gamers than with the Host. Im getting the impression you're not coming back wherever the convention moves. That's how you sound to me anyway.

TRU

…..my memories include terrible games that had never been playtested………playing games where we got to finish 2 turns……..getting clubbed like a baby seal in a tournament by a couple of pros………traveling cross country to play in a couple of games and those games being cancelled, etc.

Oh yes, clearly the fault of the Host.

Like I said, if you cant sleep and eat at where you play, then don't play there.

Why?

Gil, what a wonderful entry, especially with the Longfellow poem. The final stanza is quite poignant.

It will sort itself out guys. The people looking into alternate site are rather wise. This is a situation not of hmgs making. I am of the mind that we have already had our last convention there. I think the Host is done. I believe that Cold Wars will be cancelled and we will arise anew for Fall-In. This will be more expensive. Making this a more prohibitive weekend for my boys and I. I am glad so many gamers are so well off and down right rich, but I am not so disposed.

Again I offer up Buffalo NY for Cold Wars and Fall In!

It is the Miami of the North!! And Hockey Town USA!! Oh and we have really good "Buffalo Wings".

Timonium In Baltimore County, Maryland…Not the fairgrounds but maybe one of the hotels in the area…They're big enough for comic book shows and nostalgia cons…lots of area hotels off site and plenty to eat, and it's only an hour south of Lancaster.

Should the VFCC become the only viable option I've no doubt it will be a very expensive one, and a another move this late in the game is likely to hurt many in the process! History has proved that in the past!

If Cold Wars has to move, it should be better accepted then past moves. The difference is this would be a move dictated by external circumstances as opposed to a move dictated by dreamers.

Gil Bates,
Well quoted.

What we need now is some Wally Simons, Pat Condrays and Bob Gioglios (to name just a few of the many) who will roll up their sleeves and create new conventions. It's a lot of work requiring patience, diplomacy and probably manly parts which I don't have to turn around this organization and find the 'perfect' place for our cons.

All of you, Research, Communicate, Offer positive ideas. No whining.

Dear Cleo

That generation of gamers, including the Jay Hadley's, is gone for good. You shall not see their like again.

From the present crowd all you will get is whining. Their mantra is "I want you to organize a huge war game extravaganza I can go to.

I wonder how many people here who trumpet a location in their own backyard have actually gone and investigated, (besides idly calling up he hotels web page) with the group sales rep, the size and number of meeting rooms, rates, charges, and contractual arrangements.

I suspect there are many who are doing this but they don't post here.

Otto,

Out of respect for you and all my friends that attend your "Weekend show" I will hold back my statements and just say… You are wrong!!!

I am part of the next-gen of gamers and We have been actively helping the BoD review sites. I am not allowed to talk about it since its the BoD decision on what site HMGS choose based on the Site surveys submitted.

I will say my mission is to see that HMGS Conventions continue for most of the reasons posted here on the TMP. Its the People/Gamers and that includes YOU!

My Mantra is not even close to your statement "I want, I want" We have been asked to accelerate the process due to this news on the HOST. We are talking with Convention Site Managers, Hotel Managers and conducted site visits.
So I post here on The TMP to say do not think that the BoD that the membership elected is not doing anything.

@Gil Bates- Very Nice- Sad to see the old girl go.
"Everything dies baby that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back"

@Rotondo- I hear you loud and clear. With every site we are looking for low cost options that we can recommend but its hard to match a site that allowed us to bring in our own food and drink. This year even Fredericksburg posted no food or drink allowed in.

@MillerCop16- Keep your sense of humor, we will need it going forward

@Cleo- My only whine is.. We missed your/Bob's Cookies at Fall-In and NO ONE can blame me! Hope you both are feeling well.

Yes. And a big thank you from me for all you do for this hobby expecting nothing from anyone but a hand full of dice. 114th and several gamers from the Philly area are actively progressing this hobby. If we are not on your Radar that is your fault Otto. We play a multitude of games on a multitude of days. They are young, bright, and motivated. They are organized and not in it for the swag. Whether that is rooms or product.

The way I see this, it's a perfect opportunity for the BoD to test themselves. I feel terrible about the Host but I'm excited to see how this pans out. Best wishes guys.

To be doing site searches during the holidays has to be a difficult task, especially when trying to juggle holiday family activities and work.

Cold Wars at the Host will always be special to my son and I. We were only able to make one show, and that wad 5 years ago. My dad was terminal at the time, so we were visiting him in Reading at the time. We had moved to central FL in 97. Playing games at Cold Wars in 2010 helped relieve some stress. My dad encouraged us to go there and get away a bit. My dad passed away a year later, but the kind advice and moral support the McBrides gave us that weekend helped my son and I tremendously. We will never forget them and will always thank them. That is the true power of gaming. Bringing people together for fun and camaraderie. I hope the new site will allow that. There was a special quality to the small and intimate size of CW that I don't want to see lost.

The "next gen" of ganers?

there are alternatives. hopefully not politically motivated. i myself cannot afford fredricksburg. must be within tri state area.

need be accessible to a transportation hub.

Edison was fine. we only saw 1 part of it.,Delaware is fine. but with such low admission numbers.

need to be centraslised for all to access.

good bye Host. i had a lot of fond memories.

i bid 5,000 Quatloos on the Newcomers!

Otto…….

Millercop16…..

To all of you lamenting and worrying about the demise of the Host, don't. Just go back and re-read Gil's post – multiple times if you need to.

Having been to the Beltway conventions (Ramada, Sheraton), the Hunt Club outside Baltimore, the Penn Harris in Camp Hill, the Eisenhower in Gettysburg, before the Host, I am confident that we will find a home for our conventions. So sit back, relax, drink some eggnog and be thankful and support your organization in what it decides to do next.

As for Cold Wars 2016, unless we have already been notified that the contract is being broken by the hotel we shouldn't assume that we will have to cancel/move it. The BoD obviously needs to do some contingency planning, but there is nothing that says a) when the sale will be consummated; or b) if the new owner will immediately shutter the place while planning what to do with it next (if they plan to tear it down and build something else, they will have to go through the planning process, which will take time – time during which it may be more economical to keep it open and honor the few – one? – convention contracts they have).

if the new owner will immediately shutter the place while planning what to do with it next (if they plan to tear it down and build something else, they will have to go through the planning process, which will take time – time during which it may be more economical to keep it open and honor the few – one? – convention contracts they have)

Unless the future ownership is in the hotel/hospitality business, and therefore has the knowledge base to maintain and support the ongoing operation of the existing facility. Consequently, and obviously this is all speculation, I would suggest that the buildings will be closed and prepared for demolition sooner, rather than later.

Any future redevelopment will obviously take many, many months to design and develop, and even longer should a rezoning become necessary [for example, a change of use to residential – which is unlikely].

On the plus side, the site still has excellent potential as a successful home for a hotel conference/convention center, and that might attract an organization with deep pockets. However, their goal would probably [99%] be to demolish the existing buildings, and rebuild with new structures. What makes sense would be, a smaller hotel [150 room], increased parking, both of which would be associated with 75,000 SF of conference/convention space. The site already boasts an 18 hole golf course, which is worth a lot to any hospitality developer.

If that scenario is fulfilled we might ultimately have a new home in Lancaster – but I doubt we'd see anything concrete for at least 24-30 months. Unfortunately, I also doubt that any new hospitality ownership would have an interest in keeping the doors open merely to satisfy any prior contractual obligations with the likes of HMGS in March – but anything's possible.

If we're talking about the VFCC, what about the one in Oaks PA 10 minutes up the road?

phillyexpocenter.com

I'm pretty sure this was considered years ago but I've never gotten a reason as to why it was rejected, other than no on-site hotel.

Looks like they are pretty well booked until May

TSD101, Oaks has been brought up by several, including me, but for some reason it has not been given a publicly serious consideration.

Otto….Otto….

but for some reason it has not been given a publicly serious consideration.

Not sure why. I've been there before for gun shows, it regularly has conventions for vintage video games, model trains, and a whole host of other hobbies. Despite the website name its a good 30 minutes outside the city and I do not believe its union.

"ottoathome

And you all laughed at the people who a few years ago trumpeted "Take it to the NEXT LEVEL!" Including he who must not be blamed. They were right. It is being taken to the next level. oblivion."

Now Otto, you know that is a little harsh. You know the demise of the Host has nothing to do with HMGS or any off it's decisions so tying the two issues together is nonsense.

Personally, I prefer the conventions in an area that will increase attendance and sales. Typically, the two are linked. A hotel and convention center complex like the host will probably never happen again. However, there are close alternatives and they are being explored. A nearby main hotel with a lobby bar would be fantastic as it has always been a gathering point at the host. Replicating that at a new facility will be nice to see and something that is missing from Fredericksburg for Historicon. Obviously, with the rapid pace of events with the Host, I am sure the BOD is working in crisis mode to ensure that Cold Wars happens.

The one good(?) thing about the Host was that it was cheap. Unfortunately it conditioned some people to think that what conventions should cost. Whatever facility takes its place, you can be rest assured there will be a substantial uptick in price esp if it moves nearer the BOS-NY-DC corridor. Some of the places like the aforementioned Philly Expo center – they are a lot closer to conveniences like trains, airports etc. They were there back when Valley Forge fell thru, yet Historicon didn't move there then. I bet the reason is cost.

Al Swearengen is correct

The major factor is cost. But then… It always was.

You can put it anywhere your "leedle ole heart desires…" but…you have to pay for it. Historicon used to be the society cash cow before it moved to Fredericksburg with a 300% uptick in costs. With no additional attendance, it simply raided the treasury.

If you want it to go back to being the cash cow for the organization, then simply raise the attendance fees and dealers fees by 300%. Then you can afford to go anywhere… provided the people and dealers will come… provided… sure… they'll come… where else can they go, we have them by the short hairs…

Hell, if you raise it to that you can take Cold Wars and Fall-In wherever you want as well and this whole series of threads are moot.

Otto….Otto….Otto….

Truth told, the entrance fee for all 3 of the cons is a bargain compared to other hobby related cons. So some increase would not be out of the question (and may well be required). Face it, we got spoiled with the Host. The combination of cheap rates and a particular mix of attributes (large sq ft, attached hotel, etc) isn't all that common. I don't envy the BOD one bit for the challenge of finding a replacement.

But at this point its all pretty much speculation until after the auction goes down.

I would think that most rational people understand that their financial commitments to hmgs may need to change to help offset the cost of having a decent show. I know my personal financial commitments to get to the show will change. I like getting away for three days so in my case, I would still try to get a room on site ( or as close to) when possible. Even if it is close enough to home. They need to satisfy the day trippers, to satisfy then vendors. I realize that. I also believe most guys who go will make it fun. Point is, I am committed to making the best of a bad situation.Hmgs has done some silly things in my time, but this is beyond their control. They get a pass from me if what is next is not perfect.

I wonder if the current b.o.d. of H.M.G.S. East are aware of the above and if they are looking for another location to hold Fall-in and Cold Wars conventions?
Tom Semian