"U.S., France to press allies for more assets in fight ..." Topic

…against the Islamic State.

"The Obama administration is using the current moment of extreme anger and anxiety in Europe to press allies for sharp increases in their contributions to the fight against the Islamic State. Suggestions include more strike aircraft, more intelligence-sharing, more training and equipment for local fighters, and deployment of their own special operations ­forces.

The message has already fallen on willing ears, at least in the case of France, whose president
met with President Obama on Tuesday to plan strategy in the wake of the Nov. 13 terrorist attacks in Paris.

"There is a new mind-set now," French President François Hollande said during a White House news conference…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Cameron is talking to Parliament today….

Keep pressing … With the numbers of 65-68 members of this "coalition" against Daesh being thrown around. I wonder who they all are and what actually are they doing ? Of course, the UK, France, Oz, Canada, Germany, etc. are generally always in the in the mix. Good allies … but what about the locals ?

What new assets is the US deploying?

Last I heard from the POTUS was that the US was only going to increase the tempo of airstrikes, no new deployments.

The only "local" who can change things imho are the Turks… so… (smile).

Amicalement
Armand

Someone is providing sporks, I suspect.

Flipflops on the ground.

Russia And France Agree To Coordinate Military Operations Against The Islamic State

"French President Francois Hollande told Russia's Vladimir Putin on Thursday world powers must create a "grand coalition" to combat Islamic State militants who control swathes of territory in Syria and Iraq.

Hollande is on a diplomatic offensive to build a common front against the militant Islamist group that has claimed responsibility for the attacks in Paris on Nov. 13 that killed 130 people.

Islamic State has also said it downed a Russian plane on Oct. 31 over the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt, killing all 224 people on board.

"Our enemy is Daesh, Islamic State, it has territory, an army and resources, so we must create this large coalition to hit these terrorists," Hollande said in televised remarks at the start of bilateral talks with the Russian leader in the Kremlin…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Hollande has convinced Angela to send Recon and Refueling aircraft + a warship. And the Germans already have troops in N. Iraq training and equipping Kurds. I thing they are Fallshirmjagers ?

A vote in Parliament soon I think. Then doubtless we'll deploy four Tornadoes and call it a decent effort.

Though apparently the British are doing much of the recce donkey work in Syria according to the PM yesterday.

BTW is he right to suggest Brimsetone is more accurate than anything the USAF has? Seems a helluva claim to me.

We'll have to wait and see …

Sensible states should say no to such requests. ISIL is a Mesopotamian problem and the solution must come from that region. Yes, the mess originated with dim-witted European and American policies from the Sykes-Picot Agreement through the disbanding of the Ba'athist Iraqi military to the arming and training of a Syrian Resistance movement which transmogrified into ISIL, but alas, the solution must come from the region. While military force may be needed to contain the threat of ISIL, such force will not solve the problem. A parallel ideological and political effort is needed to get the local powers to co-exist and to begin mending the damage which has been done to the region in the last fifteen or so years.
Sensible states should jump at the chance to work towards solving the tensions which divide the Middle East and to give the people who live there some hope for a future other than war. States like Canada and the US should be taking refugees in by the tens or hundreds of thousands and all nations who can afford to (especially oil-rich gulf states) should be setting aside assets to help rebuild the shattered Middle East. The collapse of Iraq and the death-throes of Syria may be an opportunity to allow the local populations of the Middle East to create sensible frontiers which unify peoples rather than dividing them. While it has come about in the worst of ways this could be an opportunity to free the region from some of the tensions which have kept it divided for the last century and a half.
Rod Robertson.

DAESH is not a Mesopotamian problem. They desire to rule the entire freaking world. Sounds like something out of a bad Bond film, I know, but it's true.

They directly attacked Paris two weeks ago. One week ago they tried to attack Berlin.

I'm expecting them to directly attack London pretty soon.

Lion in the Stars:
ISIL/DAESH may take credit for terrorist attacks without planning, supporting or executing the attacks themselves. The ringleader of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud had close ties to both ISIL and to Algerian Jihadis. He was certainly in Syria for a time and became a poster boy for ISIL, but how much support or planning ISIL offered the Paris attackers is unclear. There is no doubt that ISIL incites groups to commit terrorist attacks but these attacks are often done by local people who are not connected to ISIL in any close way.
More to the point, there is nothing productive that NATO can do in Mesopotamia, because bombing ISIL and the unlucky innocents around it is pointless. For every terrorist you kill you just create more terrorist recruits and by killing bystanders you both confirm to the locals that ISIL's claim that the West is at war with Islam is true and anger the locals into supporting the terrorists. This in not a problem which can be solved by military means. It is an ideological struggle, a moral struggle and a political struggle. You can't bomb hate out of existence. You can't convince the majority of the Arab street of the rightness of your position by killing their family members and their neighbours while at the same time denying or dismissing responsibility for the "collateral damage" you inflict on their communities. Some military force will be needed to contain ISIL but that is not the solution. It is to buy time while the solution is designed, implemented and allowed to take root.
NATO is not the right tool. Warfare is not the right strategy. History has proven this true over and over again in the Middle East and Mesopotamia; unless you are willing to use atrocity on a level approaching genocide and even that level of violence only creates a pause of one or two generations while the angry survivors kowtow and reproduce and educate their children with hate in preparation for the next round of resistance and terrorism.
It's time to come up with new solutions to deal with the problems of the Middle East and Mesopotamia. The de facto fragmenting of Iraq and Syria may provide the world with an opportunity to correct some of the mistakes made over a century ago and allow the people of the region to form nation states which can co-exist more peacefully and even eventually to cooperate to improve conditions in the region. Alternatively, we might take a page out of ISIL's play book and work to create a secular rather than theocratic superstate in the region, a confederation of nations with autonomous powers in language, culture, religion, local resources and local economy and federal powers in trade, weights and measures, policing, communications, military matters and foreign relations. Education and migration would have to be joint jurisdictions to balance competing needs of local populations with the need to foster a pan-national identity and allegiance to ultimately weaken tribal and national ties.
What a delicious irony it would be if the hellish Caliphate envisioned by ISIL was the springboard for creating a secular Mesopotamian superstate where peoples and faiths could coexist peacefully and profit from the wealth and bounty of the region without corrupt dictators and baksheesh to drive them into poverty and desperation.
Rod Robertson.

But in the mean time while much of islam gets it's act together and decides to move into the 20th, let alone the 21st Century, etc. … The West gets threatened and attacked, repeatedly.

Maybe Rod you may want to go over there, and have a sit-down with all the players. And convince them to change their "backward", un-PC ways.

What was that old book/saying in the '60-'70s … "You're OK … I'm OK" … ? Maybe you and your pals could have it translated into the various languages of the regions. And instead on dropping high explosive ordinance, the West could just drop copies of that book. Along with roses and chocolates. And within a week or two it will be all OK ?

Given news from American today, it seems certain elements of Christianity have their issues as well….

But I don't that particular individual will get termed a terrorist.

Legion 4:
Been there, done that, have the T-shirts. I have travelled through parts of Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran in the late seventies. Just before the Islamic revolution in Iran and the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan..
The ways of of the locals are not primitive or barbaric. They are good people. It is as unfair to judge their culture and society by the actions of terrorists and dictators as it would be to judge American values by how street gangs behave. And might I point out that many of the terrorists and despots have their roots in Anglo-American foreign policy. The locals would dearly like to get rid of the lot, but somehow we keep supporting them.
Rod Robertson.

Given news from American today, it seems certain elements of Christianity have their issues as well….

But I don't that particular individual will get termed a terrorist.

He's mentally ill … no one is seriously calling him a terrorist. He's a criminal/criminally insane … Again, only 70% of the US is Christian, 22% Nothing, 1.9 Jewish, .9% moslem, .7% Hindu, and the rest – Other, like Wiccans, etc. …

So just on basic stats … a good chance criminals like this will be "Christian" … So what ?

It is as unfair to judge their culture and society by the actions of terrorists and dictators as it would be to judge American values by how street gangs behave. And might I point out that many of the terrorists and despots have their roots in Anglo-American foreign policy. The locals would dearly like to get rid of the lot, but somehow we keep supporting them.

Yes Rod we know all that … Thank you. But I'm not going say that the non-jihadis should get a pass. Regardless, what the West did or didn't do in the past. It's an Islamic civil war … They got to work it out … Not let their lunatic fringe murder Western civilians in New York, Boston, Paris, etc. … We can't fix their religious, ethnic, etc., lifelong hatreds, etc. for them.

Been there, done that, have the T-shirts. I have travelled through parts of Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran in the late seventies.

Oh … now that I think of it since you were there in the '70s … I'm now blaming you for all these problems …

The ways of the locals are not primitive or barbaric. They are good people.

Yes, we all know that as well. Like … Not all Germans were Nazis either. We understand not all moslems are terrorists, but … today in that region and some other areas, pretty much all terrorists Are moslems … And those moslem terrorists are trying to kill us … along with many others. Including many other moslems …

Legion 4:
So are the suicide bombers of ISIL mentally ill? Suicidal tendencies are a strong indicator of mental illness. The West is still using a big double standard. All but one of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks that we know of were European born. So why do we call them Moroccans, Syrians, etc? It's spin to support military intervention and military spending.

As to the past misdeeds of the West I would agree, but we're doing this crap right now. We are supporting corrupt and despotic governments in the Gulf and Saudi Arabia as they attempt to reinstall a hated dictator back into power who has been thrown out by his people twice. We are taking sides in a civil war in Syria and moving towards supporting another ruthless dictator and oligarchy with an appalling human rights record and a disdain for reform of any kind. And why are we doing this? Because "our" rebels went radical and joined ISIL! We are arming and training the Kurdish Peshmerga which is setting the stage for an Iraqi civil war and a violent Turkish reaction to Kurdish demands for autonomy and sovereignty. We are supporting a regional superpower which has imposed de facto apartheid on the Palestinian people and say nothing when that regional power attacks civilian populations killing thousands at a time. These are not acts of the past, they are acts of the present. And in Arab and other eyes we are below the level of even contempt because we do not back up our actions for very long. We abandon those who we have used and betray them to their enemies when the foreign policy moves on. We strike from afar and use the tactics of assassins and then we have the unmitigated egocentricity to call them the "true terrorists". We are champions of hypocrisy and mass murder and the damage which we have caused is wildly disproportional to the damage done to us.

People in the West better stop buying into the spin doctoring and the shaping of the debate which is being fed to us at a prodigious pace. It is time to open our eyes and see what is really happening. One day soon the situation will deteriorate so badly that the West will find itself encircled by hostile powers who will act in concert to curb our abusive militarism. And when attacked in the Middle East, Asia, The Pacific and Europe simultaneously we will lose the war or lose the biosphere. I for one would like to avoid that disaster.

Rod Robertson.

So are the suicide bombers of ISIL mentally ill? Suicidal tendencies are a strong indicator of mental illness.

Yes, I would think so … don't you ?

The West is still using a big double standard. All but one of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks that we know of were European born. So why do we call them Moroccans, Syrians, etc?

Regardless, they are radicalized moslems, not Amish.

It's spin to support military intervention and military spending.

Now were getting into territory …

We strike from afar and use the tactics of assassins and then we have the unmitigated egocentricity to call them the "true terrorists".

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

People in the West better stop buying into the spin doctoring and the shaping of the debate which is being fed to us at a prodigious pace. It is time to open our eyes and see what is really happening. One day soon the situation will deteriorate so badly that the West will find itself encircled by hostile powers who will act in concert to curb our abusive militarism.

Get out the again … Sorry Rod I'm not buying all you are selling …

Given news from American today, it seems certain elements of Christianity have their issues as well….

But I don't that particular individual will get termed a terrorist.

Considering that none of the dead were Planned Parenthood clients and he was lugging a propane cutting torch with him, he's a damn incompetent bank robber who should get put down like the rabid dog he is.

Oh no … he's just misunderstood … he had a bad childhood and never got what he wanted for Christmas …

So, if you're a Muslim, you're a terrorist.

If you're Christian you're 'mentally ill'….

Nope, no double standard there at all.

For heavens sake stu ! Get off that erroneous mantra ! We all know … Not all moslems are terrorists, but all terrorists are moslem. At this time in this region and other areas. Apples and oranges. Or dates and figs if you prefer.

If you're Christian you're 'mentally ill'….

In this case, I'd suspect everybody agrees this ONE individual is mentally ill. His mental health has nothing to do with his religion.

Now in saying that, if you can't find some sort of mental illness. With some of the heinous barbaric war crime/crimes against humanity, etc., that Islamic terrorists commit [beheadings, crucifixion, burned alive, mass executions, enslavement, rape, torture, genocide, etc., etc.], than you need to re-look at your definitions of mental illness and crimes against humanity, etc.

Nope, no double standard there at all.…

Well as usual you twist and spin words, read into the meaning of comments that are not there. YOU have the double standard. As many of us see and know. With your comments, etc., about Israel and the US … You may be the real racist with double standards … Look within before you make accusations, etc. …

And now that I think of it … what does France asking for more support to go after the murdering racist jihadi terrorists ? That slaughtered all those innocent civilians in Paris. Has to do with one lunatic in CO going on a shooting rampage ? Do you even think thru some of your comments ?

Merely pointing out the double standard in coverage.

Had that loon been Islamic, the first thing anyone would have thought of is terrorism.

Some are calling him a terrorist or domestic terrorism because they believe he did this act for "political" reasons. Really does not mean anything as he was just crazy, bottom line …
At this point the LEOs are still trying to find a real motive. Besides he is mentally ill. We all know his intent … but certainly not a real motive. Madness may not have a pattern, but it has a "goal" …

Had he committed this act in the name of Daesh … then IMO that would clearly be an act of radicalized Islamic terrorism ..