"New Movie "My Honor Was Loyalty"" Topic

Looks Interesting. Out Dec. 7th. My apologies if this has been posted already.

mhwl-movie.com

It's about time we had a movie honoring the Waffen SS.

I thought for a second that it was about the 26th Cavalry!! Especially with the December 7 date.

26th Cavalry Regiment

Motto: Our strength is in loyalty[2]

I wonder if the movie will show the Malmedy massacre performed by Kampgruppe Peiper of the 1st SS Panzer Division, Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler?

I think that this is one on which I'll pass.

Jim

Rated PG? You can't make a decent WWII war film if it is only rate PG. Can you imagine "Saving Private Ryan" rated PG?

"It's about time we had a movie honoring the Waffen SS."

I read this five minutes ago but I'm still laughing

Okay I'd be really interested in watching an unprejudiced, historically accurate and well directed movie with high production values following the exploits of a group of individuals of the SS. I'm not sure if this ticks ALL those boxes.

Wot no Tigers?!

Okay I'd be really interested in watching an unprejudiced, historically accurate and well directed movie with high production values following the exploits of a group of individuals

So would I. But SPR and Fury hardly ticked all the boxes either but they seem to have been popular with WW2 gamers. Now what we really need, and I mean REALLY need, is something from the British perspective, done properly.

Wow, it's pretty shocking that someone made a movie following the exploits of the SS, using the SS motto as the title, and backing it up with Leibstandarte (guess they forgot the "AH" part?).

As I've stated before, I don't condemn every soldier that wore the uniform (preferring to judge him on his own personal actions), but to glorify the institution is beyond the pale. Is this a real movie or some fruit loop's propaganda fantasy? I haven't Googled it, but what do we know about Alessandro Pepe?

If one wanted to tell the story of a German soldier/group of German soldiers in WWII, with a love interest, that fought on the East Front and in Normandy, I'd imagine there is no shortage of source material. I wouldn't mind a new movie like that at all; Cross of Iron has always been one of my favorites.

And I suppose a point is made there too; what unit was James Coburn/Corporal Steiner in? I may be wrong, but I don't really remember the movie addressing that, and the story was none the poorer for it. It was simply the story of a group of German soldiers on the East Front. I find it pretty disgusting to not only make a story about the SS and refer to it as "…the German 'Band of Brothers'…" but to title it with the SS motto and unit with Hitler's name in it???

V/R,
Jack

Wish he could have spent his time doing "Legion of the Damned". :)

You can tell great movies about the German army. Cross of Iron has been mentioned, as is Stalingrad (though its a bit more uneven).

The good ones tend to be an exploration into the human condition and the particularly German post-war view of war as a maelstrom of death and destruction, against which the individual is powerless.

Just Jack – I don't remember if they specify the unit but it's almost better if it doesn't.
You're not supposed to remember whether it's this or that unit fighting at this or that town. All is nothing before the war, is the German way of war storytelling :)

This line
"A truly beautiful film that tells of loyalty, courage, sacrifice and truth – it is not for everyone, but those who are courageous enough to stand we bring you." really raises all my warning signs though.

The lines in the trailer all look like the typical Nazi whitewash that some internet forums are so fond of. A lot of talk about honour and "Defending the motherland".

"something from the British perspective, done properly."

Absolutely, couldn't agree more, and I really don't have a problem at all with following a German perspective; I'd be first in line to see one done well. But I personally would really love to see something done on the British.

"…but to title it with the SS motto and unit with Hitler's name in it???…"

Yeah I actually thought it was a spoof when I read the title…"unprejudiced" I can't get past the title without a laugh and a shake of the head…

Leibstandarte's motto is actually "My Honour is Loyalty". I could be wrong but I think the "Was" represents the main characters inner conflict with what he's suppose to be doing. Just guessing!

"Meine Ehre heisst Treue" – my honour is called loyalty. This is the motto of the SS, not only Leibstandarte. The use of this motto – or variations thereof, which is seem to read in the title – is punishable in at least Austria and Germany since 1947.
I feel that this should be enough comment on this picture. The colour picture of the three soldiers (third image from above) could be taken straight out of "Signal" !

….perhaps reflective of the rise of far-right parties in today's Europe?

Do you think there is scene in it where they recognise they are the baddies?
YouTube link

"Yes, I pulled the trigger – but I didn't want to" films from Germany (via Italy in this case it seems) aren't my cup o tea.

Interesting comments above. Yet Letters from Iwo Jima was critically acclaimed.

Brian- Do you think this film about the SS will have the same tone/message as "Sands"? Of course we don't know for sure yet, but given its title and the unit it focuses on….

james lucas said "when dealing with ANY group of 1 million+ men, you will have men with sterling character and those with no morals". i find it quite funny how so many people can't see that very basic fact.

my grand father(on my mothers side) came to america in 1925. he left his mother and a brother. he wrote to them up to the day he found out his brother joined the ss(as far as my grand mother could remember, about 1937ish). my grandfather just could'nt be bothered after he found this out. my grandfather was a chemical engineer during ww2, and did'nt join the armed forces because of a hearing problem.
anyway, his brother was supposedly alive until feb.1945, and just disappeared "in the east"(again, according to my grandmother, who died in 2002). noone knew WHAT branch of the ss the brother was in. he could have been a hero in the waffen ss, a concentration camp guard, or a "nobody" pushing paper behind a desk somewhere.
point is, my grandfather never found out what had happened to his only brother because someone got it in their heads that "the ss is a criminal organization" and therefore every ss man, be they hero or villian, is a terrible criminal.

sigh….. ss as crimmal organisation?..well, it was a totally necessary expedient post war to ensure its like didn't see light again in Germany, and amen to that.
Every ss man a criminal? of course not. Every GI, tommy, and ivan a perfect hero? of course not…but does the world actually need a film explaining the "virtues" of the ss soldier…No, it doesn't.

John Lacour,

I don't think anyone is condemning anyone. My opinion is that a, if not the, major underpinning of Western civilization and specifically the liberal democracies, is that we value and judge the individual based on their own merit and actions.

But that doesn't change the fact the SS as an institution was morally bankrupt, and should not be glorified in film.

Edit: looks like Christot types faster than me ;)

V/R,
Jack

My Honor WAS Loyalty

Let us consider the specific wording of the title. It seems to suggest, at least potentially, some self-doubt or self questioning…

And from the description of the film …

My Honor Was Loyalty is set in the Second World War with stunning battle scenes and production values normally associated with studio films.
Sergeant Ludwig Herckel is a devoted and patriotic soldier of the SS Leibstandarte, He's fights in every major conflict from the Eastern front to Normandy.
Fiercely loyal to his country and his brothers in arms, and loved by his men, he will face his greatest battle against himself.
Realizing how the war going to end, he will deal with hard choices in order to stay alive with his friends and get back to his wife.
This is the ‘German Band of Brothers' based on true events it depicts a fascinating side of the second world war that was rarely told.

Hmmm … not at all clear to me.

But I will wait until the film is out before I pass judgement.

I've read many first hand accounts from WW2 German soldiers, both ordinary men and high general staff. I have even known a few German WW2 veterans. I've traveled and done business in Germany, and have had many German friends for decades. I can understand some of the perspectives of the ordinary German in that timeframe, and I respect the self-examination that Germany, both the nation and the people, have undergone since 1945.

But … I have very little patience with efforts to paint the Waffen SS as just a bunch of patriotic soldiers doing their part for God and country. Nope. That don't play with me.

I wouldn't have much patience for a movie about ISIS terrorists being regular patriotic guys. I put the Waffen SS in the same boat. Soldiers fighting for their country? Yeah, ok. But patriotic brave men of honor? No, I think blood thirsty savages and heartless murders is a better descriptor.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

It is interesting to note that we are getting far enough away from WWII to start showing the German soldiers in a more positive manner while showing the allied soldiers in a negative one. Granted there were exceptions, Pluskat in The Longest Day being an excellent example.

Fred,

One of my favorite comedy sketches!

Ding! round 2

I'm all for reminding the world that the ordinary German solider of WWII was not inherently evil, nor the allied solider morally incorrupt. No reasonable person here would suggest that I'm sure. What I believe is being held up here as a concern is the Title of the show which makes a very clear and obvious connection to the SS organization and Hitler's bodyguard in particular which was at the time as morally corrupt as any modern terror organization we would wish to make a comparison.

Ding! round 2. Wonder why I bought the SS-Sturmbataillon Charlemagne and Last Levy, the Defence of Berlin. Am I glorifying the Nazi regime?
I never watched the Quentin Tarantino film Inglourious Basterds movie because I saw the shorts showing the baseball bat seen. But. Maybe it too had an 'uplifting moral tale' what I'm saying is, if its distasteful to you don't watch it and War in itself is just distasteful and bad no matter who or what is involved anyway. Now back to make believe glory and toy soldiers :)
Cheers

I kinda feel there's a difference between "I own some SS troopers for my games" and "Here's a movie about the honourable, valiant heroes of the SS" :-)

"Am I glorifying the Nazi regime?"

Only you could positively answer that ;)

Choosing to re-enact a historical engagement would offer no evidence one way or the other though

And that's the problem here too. It is difficult to discern exactly the motivation behind a project like this. But is there at least reasons for suspicion?

Well if you made a movie from the German perspective and insisted on using the unit most aligned to the regime's philosophical and moral beliefs and provided their Name to the title the rest of us could have at the very least some reasonably well founded suspicions of your intentions

So if the director is truly motivated by giving the German solider a well deserved rostrum then I think he's harming the entire project's credibility even before a bullet is fired

Swap the SS for ISIS and swap the title for Aluhah Akbar or however its spelled in English.

Keep every line of dialogue in the trailer the same.

Weasel; that is the point I was alluding to earlier. I 100% agree. And maybe in 70 years some of our grandkids will be wasting their time having that very discussion ;)

….. I would think that the more sensible thing to do would be to first see the film before drawing conclusions about it. Perhaps it is a monumentally scathing indictment of Nazism and its corruption of the German people …..

just saying.

B

BTW sorry not trying to derail the train here but did anyone see the Generation War series. I've been looking to see it but I can't find it anywhere. Not sure if it's worth the search but I was interested in seeing it

@Blutarski I genuinely hope that's the case.

War Panda, I hate to say it, but I suspect that in 70 years ISIS will still be giving examples of just why they should be exterminated like the cockroaches they are.

Maybe Lion, In any case I'm quite certain as long as there are individuals roaming this planet we'll have no shortage of idiots who thrill in bullying, violence and murder who endeavour to legitimize their behavior with some form of belief system; wherever they come from or whatever they might call themselves they're never far from picking a fight on those who they perceive as weaker than themselves. History proves that in the end they encounter something larger than the "cockroaches they are."

"THE FIRST FILM FROM THE EMERGING GENIUS that is ALESSANDRO PEPE"

First warning that the movie you're about to see might not make the oscars this year …

I will try to see it and give it a chance. If it is rampant Neo-Nazi propaganda it will not alter my views.

From the trailer and the stills it LOOKS good.

The danger is that certain Neo Nazi groups will fasten on to this film and use it to glorify the SS and justify their POV.

But I still wouldn't censor it. Free speech should cut both ways.

From some of the comments on the FB page, it is fairly easy to see what sort of audience it is going to attract.

"God has judged them all innocent! True soldiers of light and the last major rival to the red beast!!"

(OK, I did have to search about a bit for that one, along with the chap lamenting it wasn't about Das Reich instead).

Like Skarper, I shall also reserve judgement until actually seeing it. It is very easy to pass judgement on this sort of thing, I just wish it wasn't so…gleeful, particularly as our 'hero' will have voluntered to be in SS Liebstandarte and sworn his oath:

"I vow to you, Adolf Hitler, as Führer and chancellor of the German Reich, loyalty and bravery. I vow to you and to the leaders that you set for me, absolute allegiance until death. So help me God."

Nothing about patriotism or defence of the Heimat, just allegience to Hitler and his cronies. Lovely.

"BTW sorry not trying to derail the train here but did anyone see the Generation War series. I've been looking to see it but I can't find it anywhere. Not sure if it's worth the search but I was interested in seeing it"

It is pretty good, although very much in the 'stubble in the rubble ' style and 'those bad Nazis made us all do it, nothing to do with us guv'.

But patriotic brave men of honor? No, I think blood thirsty savages and heartless murders is a better descriptor.

Mark that was probably true for the volunteer units, but by the last year of the war what I have read suggests the vast majority of Waffen SS enlisted men were conscripts, scared witless most of the time and just hoping to survive the war. Not many square jawed, Aryan, Nazi fanatics left. In fact much like the bulk of most armies. Also I'm not sure why everyone singles out the Waffen SS. Omar Bartov's book "Hitler's Army" shows quite convincingly that Nazi propaganda and ideals permeated the regular Heer as much as the Waffen SS and that atrocities were not limited to the SS only. In fact some of the worse death rates among Russian prisoners were in 1941 when very few Waffen SS were fighting in the east. The idea that regular Heer are the OK guys and the Waffen SS the muderous Nazi fanatics doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Interesting though. What would folks reaction be to a Russian film portraying an NKVD unit as just a bunch of regular guys fighting for their country?

Unfortunately I have a neo-nazi in my family. He quite loves saying the motto "my honour is loyalty"… sure he'll get a kick out of this movie! Can't say that you'll see ME sitting with him in the theater with a bag of popcorn, though.

Which cultural heroes of morally-depraved racists should we honour next, chaps?

"BTW sorry not trying to derail the train here but did anyone see the Generation War series. I've been looking to see it but I can't find it anywhere. Not sure if it's worth the search but I was interested in seeing it"

Try Netflix.

B

Lion in the stars…on behalf of cockroaches everywhere I strongly object!

Skarper got it right, any rational person knows who are the psychos bullies and who like the rest of up need to find a c-rapper in conflict situations ;/) I'm one for stopping absolute badness and madness, for me I think itsd just the bad-a ss cammo and brainwashed kids with panzerfausts. OK I get into the whole storm trooper vib when playing but that's just the geek role player in me ( sorry Gramps and forgive me its all makebelive fun:)
Cheers all, entertainment and values don't have to conflict.

@Martin

Thanks. My expectations aren't too high to be honest but I'd love something new to see during the Christmas

@Blutarski

Thanks for the suggestion but it's not available on Netflix in Canada at least

One of my former friend, more interested in that than me, read a book stating that (can't recall which one for sure) maybe 12 th ss div in Normandy was staffed by veterans who knew they lost and just wanted to get back alive and youngsters scared and propaganda led there, soon put to right by realities and the vets.
If I remember well they were shooting all ammo quickly to be withdrawn as adolf did not want his propaganda toys hurt too much, declaring lots of wounded for same effects… No fanatics at all.
Not sure if true. Possibly self serving memoirs.
German revision of History demolished the good Werhmacht bad Ss dicotomy. The ss fighting units were not necessarily worse than Heer (morals) as many of the atrocities esp. East were carried out without fuss by them.
There must have been poor chaps carried into the tragedy in both.
Ok they could have done a film on "normal " germans. My guess is this will stir controversy which is good advertising.

War Panda,
Hmmm. I know for sure Generation War was carried by Netflix on demand here in the States, as that was where I had watched it. It's possible that it might have been rotated off the list by Netflix.

B

Thanks B…worth a try and they might put it back on :)

WP, Generation War is probably better than I made out. Some of the characters are quite interesting, and I won't spoil it by saying which one:) Essentially the message is that all Germans were victims of those bad Nazis though.

It does at least not maintain the pretence that the Heer had nothing to do with the Einsatzgruppen.