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Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP19 Nov 2015 1:06 p.m. PST

Most moslems are Not terrorists … it's a statistical fact. If nothing else.

Glad your relative was only wounded, Tango … only being wounded is easy to say … unless you are the one who is wounded ! wink

Mithmee19 Nov 2015 1:49 p.m. PST

True but in todays world nearly all Terrorists are Muslim.

911 – Attackers were Muslims
Boston Actack – Attackers were Muslims
Fort Hood Shooting – Attacker was Muslim
Paris Attacks – Attacker were Muslims
American Teenager killed in the West Bank – Attacker was Muslim

I am seeing a pattern here.

Bangorstu19 Nov 2015 2:55 p.m. PST

Not sure that's true… FARC have only just given up, we still have paramilitaries in Northern Ireland…

…and the people who send the most bombs in the UK are animal rights nutters.

And I'm at a loss to determine what really separates the terrorists from Friday night from a run of the mill US spree killer, when all is said and done.

Don't think the Unabomber or Tim Mcveigh were Muslims either.

GeoffQRF19 Nov 2015 3:04 p.m. PST

Ok so that has identified about 20… Out of 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide.

Official FBI records show that only 6% of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 1980 to 2005 were carried out by Islamic extremists. The remaining 94% were from other groups (42% from Latinos, 24% from extreme left wing groups, 7% from extremist Jews, 5% from communists, and 16% from all other groups).

Europol publishes an annual report entitled EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report. On their official website, you can access the reports from 2007, 2008, and 2009. The results indicate that 99.6% of terrorist attacks in Europe were by non-Muslim groups; a good 84.8% of attacks were from separatist groups completely unrelated to Islam. Leftist groups accounted for over sixteen times as much terrorism as radical Islamic groups. Only a measly 0.4% of terrorist attacks from 2006 to 2008 could be attributed to extremist Muslims.

In fact separatist groups are by far the most likely to commit acts of terrorism. The situation in France was devastatingly awful, but let's keep it in perspective and not let these Bleeped texts create the very fear and paranoia they want to fuel their cause.

jpattern219 Nov 2015 4:36 p.m. PST

But GeoffQRF, Mithmee sees a pattern! A PATTERN!!!!!

GNREP819 Nov 2015 4:50 p.m. PST

Mithmee
But if you are going to go back to 9/11 then you've also got to count Breivik (77 people killed by one man), Roof etc in as examples of white supremacist terrorists

GeoffQRF19 Nov 2015 10:44 p.m. PST

Ok I ran this past Bill before posting. It is not intended to provoke discussion into the merits or downfalls of religion or why my book may be better than your book, but I think is a useful education into the complexities of something that may not be fully understood by those who are not a part of it.

**********************************

(#INS) Information Mullet: In light of the Paris attacks for those who want to (rightfully) avoid the fallacy of generalizations (1) in describing the attackers I recommend using the term "Salafist Takfiri" to *specifically* describe militant members of groups such as AQ, ISIS, AQAP, Boko Haram etc. who share a common set of behaviors and beliefs. These behaviors and beliefs are *not* the same as Muslims or even Islamists and understanding the difference is key to working together with our allies in this fight and isolating those who are our enemies.

In 2006 the West Point Center for Combating Terrorism released it's Atlas of Militant Ideology with a very handy segmentation (2) that I roughly reproduce below.

Those who believe in Islam are Muslims.

Muslims who believe that Islam should be the basis of the state are Islamists.
Suuni Islamists who believe the Islamic state should be built off of 14th Century principles or the restoration of the Caliphate are Salafists.
Salafists who are willing to break the law of the Koran by declaring another Muslim apostate and kill them are Takfiri.(3)

Takfiri are largely our problem.
Not Salifists.
Not Islamists.
And certainly not Muslims.

AQ, AQIP, AQIM, Al Nusra, Ansar al Sharia, Boko Haram, ISIS, Jemiah al Islamiah, JWT, the Mujhadeen Shura Council….all Salifist-Takfiri, largely influenced by the same Whabbist split of the Salafist creed. (Parphrased elsewhere all Whabbists are Salafists, but not all Salafists are Whabbist.)

There are Shia bad actors as well.
The Shia version of Islamist is a Khomeinist (those who believe Islamic clergy & jurists should run the state on Islamic principles).
The Shia don't really have a version of Salafist/Whabbiest – but their version of Takfiri are groups like Hezbollah, the Al-Sadr Brigades and Shia death squads in Iraq.

I don't expect everyone to know this. The "mafia" that kills Muslims for drawing pictures, those are the Salafist Takfiris. They are *not* Muslims in the broader sense.

And as for "Muslims speaking out" against Salfist-Takfiri militancy I've got a list as long as my arm I can point you too. Each entry itself a major rebuttal or condemnation of Salifi-Takfirism signed by hundreds of prominent Muslim officials and scholars including the Aman Message in 2004.(4)

And to every commentator who gets on a TV show or a radio or a news site and claims that because they have "read the Koran" and suddenly thinks they are an expert on militants or fundamentalists or even Muslims.The book is meaningless in this conversation.

Salifist-Takfiri are prolific writers and readers, and they don't cite the Koran, they cite *scholars* of the Koran. Not unlike politicans today are likely to cite founding father and courts are likely to cite court cases.

Indeed trying to understand what's going on in modern Islamic militant fundamentalism by only reading the Koran book is like trying to understand the history of US politics in the 20th Century by only reading the magna carta.

When creating their militant atlas of ideology, West Point Center for Combating did a citation analysis, looking at over 100 texts of Islamic scholars and then seeing which scholars the ideologues cited and grouping them that way. It would be like identifying American political figures by looking at who cites Jefferson, Madison or Adams most. (And yes, just between those three Founding you can tell a lot about the person citing them if they favor one over the other two as they represent three persistent factions/trends in American political theory.)

Back to the subject at hand – the Whabbist faction of Salafism is indeed named for the scholar Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (18th century) and Salafism itself is named for the Islamic scholar & cleric Ibn Taymiyyah (14th Century).

If folks wish to inform themselves better on this subject I urge to read the executive summary (26 pages) of the Atlas. Its a quick read and not too dense, and a far better source than Bill Maher or commentators who have zero expertise in the subject. If you want to go "deep", the attached Research Compendium, clocking in at over 300 pages, provides a great guide to the scholars, and the nuances of the ideology that form these splits.

PDF link

(1) Every *legitimate* problem solving method in the world seeks to reduce the scope of the problem by separating wheat from chaff, signal from noise. Almost every form of analysis is an attempt to isolate further, what is the root cause activity that is driving the negative behavior. Because once you find that smallest part…you can focus on it, put all your attention into that part and not defuse any effort by spreading it thin on the uninvolved.

It's a form of logic – given group A and group B, and group B is the root cause of behavior C – no matter how much effort you spend working to modify group A, you will not change group B and therefore not improve behavior C.

Everything bad you could say about Salafist-Takfiri I would accept and add a few more.

This very small subset of all Muslims is punching far above its weight and are a true manifestation of evil on this planet. So why waste our time and resources on the other 1.49B Muslims who *aren't* Salafist Takfiri? This is not about political correctness, this is about utility in target selection.

(2) I call this fractal segmentation and it's based off of statistical self similarity of fractional units, or more easily called "the coastline of britain problem". Stated simply as you increase the fidelity of your measure, and are able to read in ever smaller units of measurement, the figure you are studying literally changes in its shape,dimensions and measurement. The thought experiment which demonstrates this is if you imagine measuring the Coastline of Britain with a 200km stick, it will be one shape and have a distance of 2400km. But if you measure the Coastline of Britain with a 50km stick, it will have a very different shape, and a coastline distance of 3400km.

When someone says "Muslims are the problem" their 'stick' is 1.4B people large. The Salafist Takfiri measurement 'stick' is maybe a few million. The shape and nature of the problem generalists describe is very different than the actual shape and nature of the actual problem. The generalists rough blob of a measure is like looking at a 10,000 piece puzzle after you've spent the night in a mexican bar drinking the worm – it's fuzzy, hard to describe and not easy to work on. The Salafist Takfiri measurement is like picking up a single piece of the puzzle, with clarity, and saying "this…this is what we need to focus on."

In professional (private sector) analytics, the segmentation goes down to micro clusters of 10,000 people and in some cases gets down to the "protocol of one", measuring a problem a single individual at a time. This is fairly new because the computing and instrumentation power to do this simply wasn't available in the past.

link

(3) The term Takfiri does not appear in the West Point CTC Atlas of Militant Ideology. It actually was popularly coined (in this usage AFAIK) by David Kilcullen in his book Accidental Guerilla published in 2009. Takfiri is a great moniker because it is theologically more accurate than Jihadi (which can mean many things and is at times a venerated term) to describe Muslims who, outside the law, take it upon themselves to kill other Muslisms. It has the added side benefit of being a grevious insult. ISIS has been known to cut off the tongues of anyone they hear mutter Takfiri in the towns. They want to be Jihadi's, they want to claim that legitimacy, but they are really Takfiri.

For a fuller treatment of Takfiri see Kilcullen's "Note on Terminology" in the preface of his book Accidental Guerrila:
link

(4) After the bombing of a Jordanian hotel during a wedding ceremony, King Abdullah the II brought together an ecumenical council of Islamic religious scholars from around the world to debate what Islam is, and is not. The Amman Messages which came out condemns Takfiri movements in *both* Suuni and Shia denominations as un-Islamic. Overall:

(1) They specifically recognized the validity of all 8 Mathhabs (legal schools) of Sunni, Shi'a and Ibadhi Islam; of traditional Islamic Theology (Ash'arism); of Islamic Mysticism (Sufism), and of true Salafi thought, and came to a precise definition of who is a Muslim.

(2) Based upon this definition they forbade takfir (declarations of apostasy) between Muslims.

(3) Based upon the Mathahib they set forth the subjective and objective preconditions for the issuing of fatwas, thereby exposing ignorant and illegitimate edicts in the name of Islam.

****************
It is not my original work, it was linked to on Facebook by a friend of mine (a Christian gay German) but hopefully goes some way to educating and informing about some of the complexities when people talk about Muslims, or Muslim countries (us reporter the other day describing 'the problem in Muslim countries')

I also ran it past my sister, a Christian who converted to Islam when she married a Lebanese Gulf Arab. She (with her 6 Muslim children) has lived in the UAE since 1988 and has, I think, a pretty good handle on the pulse on the street. She says this is a fair assessment

jpattern220 Nov 2015 6:32 a.m. PST

thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

Should be required reading for all politicians, pundits, and news anchors before they can weigh in on the topic.

GNREP820 Nov 2015 9:52 a.m. PST

Good post by Geoff. Such points of course will go over the head (none here of course) of the kind of people who in the UK attacked Sikhs on the basis of "well there waring turbins aint they, must be Mussos". But even excluding such , its still too easy for people to wildly bandy about terms that end up demonising by accident or by intention (in the case of those who are far right/white supremacists – not much btw less of an danger to me and I suspect many here as those Takiris) all Muslims.

I think we can forget how hurtful it must be for people in them to hear entire faiths groups stereotyped in such a way. I am a Christian and if people said (based on really far too many abuse cases) "Christians (without any qualification or caveats) are child abusers/a danger to kids" then of course I'd find that very offensive. And before anyone says that doesn't happen – not here but try spending time on social media – I've seen variants on 'Christians are paedos, Christians with their anti sex teachings are secret perverts' etc

Tango0120 Nov 2015 11:32 a.m. PST

Great post Geoff.!!…

Amicalement
Armand

Tango0120 Nov 2015 10:18 p.m. PST

French Commando Leader Describes Details Of The Paris Bataclan Raid

"When elite French commandos stormed the Bataclan concert hall last Friday night, they found hundreds of people laying on the floor, blood everywhere — and an eerie silence.

Jeremy, captain of the commandos, revealed details of how the operation played out in an exclusive interview with NBC News' Lester Holt — on condition that his last name not be used.

Among the revelations:

* Commandos had to ignore the moans of the wounded to find the terrorists.
* The jihadis identified themselves as "soldiers of the caliphate."
* "Negotiations" with the shooters included "classic political demands" about French operations in Syria.
* The negotiations were an excuse to buy time to murder innocents…"
Full article here
link

YouTube link

An incredibly gripping account from the commander in charge.

Amicalement
Armand

Tango0122 Nov 2015 9:48 p.m. PST

More Details Are Becoming Known On The Nine Men Who Were Responsible For The Paris Attacks

"The young men who checked into the rental house in Bobigny before the Paris attacks were well-mannered and well-dressed. In town for business, they said. The men paid 100 euros a night for the two-story brick house in the middle-class Paris suburb. When they arrived, one of them presented the house's owner, who lived on the same quiet street, with his ID card: Brahim Abdeslam.

Three days later, Abdeslam lay dying on the floor of a Paris cafe, a coil of multicolored wires visible under his T-shirt, just moments after he detonated his suicide vest. Abdeslam would now be known as one of the perpetrators of the worst attacks on French soil since World War II, an offensive that laid bare the Islamic State's power to strike the heart of Europe.

Investigators are still piecing together how a group of at least nine young men, believed to be mostly French and Belgian nationals who became radicalized in Europe, planned their offensive, funded it, equipped themselves with explosives and assault rifles, arranged safe houses and launched the coordinated attacks, which killed 130 and injured more than 350 across Paris…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Tango0123 Nov 2015 10:39 p.m. PST

Authorities missed many 'red flags' before Paris shootings…

"
There were multiple chances to stop the men who attacked Paris.

In January, Turkish authorities detained one of the suicide bombers at Turkey's border and deported him to Belgium. Brahim Abdeslam, Turkish authorities told Belgian police at the time, had been "radicalized" and was suspected of wanting to join Islamic State in Syria, a Turkish security source told Reuters.

Yet during questioning in Belgium, Abdeslam denied any involvement with militants and was set free. So was his brother Salah – a decision that Belgian authorities say was based on scant evidence that either man had terrorist intentions…"
Main page
link

Amicalement
Armand

GeoffQRF24 Nov 2015 2:34 a.m. PST

Difficult – suspected on wanting to join is not the same as actual evidence, and you open a whole different can of worms when you start detaining people on suspected intentions.

Bangorstu24 Nov 2015 3:28 a.m. PST

As we found out, internment is counter-productive.

Whereas the French do seem to have reasonable success against these attacks – having foiled a number this year – here they seem to have been hampered by their allies not keeping them in the loop.

I'll note in passing that British success is largely due to co-operation from our Muslim minority.

GeoffQRF24 Nov 2015 5:25 a.m. PST

I'll note in passing that British success is largely due to co-operation from our Muslim minority

Very much so. It appears that the British Muslim community are very conscious how these things reflect on them as a group and, with a few exceptions, are more than willing to get rid of the trouble makers so they can enjoy the freedom of religious worship in the UK in peace.

Slappy24 Nov 2015 4:38 p.m. PST

Islam has a PC problem, how this is solved I don't know. All I know is that killing more people is not the answer.

Tango0125 Nov 2015 9:36 p.m. PST

Paris attacks: Another attack could have been hours away

"French authorities working to dismantle the terrorist network behind the Paris attacks say another attack could have been hours away when police closed in on the suspects' hideaway last week.

Suspected ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud and another man were planning a suicide attack on the Paris financial district of La Defense on November 18 or 19, Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said Tuesday. Both men were killed during a raid in Saint-Denis that caused the collapse of a floor of an apartment building.

Two suspects in last week's attack remain on the run, however. They are Salah Abdeslam, whose brother died in the attack, and Mohamed Abrini -- whom police named as a suspect Tuesday…"
See here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Supercilius Maximus26 Nov 2015 4:02 p.m. PST

Geoff/Bangorstu,

Are British Muslims predominantly Shia or Sunni, or are they a mix? Do any of the really small Muslim sects have much of a presence here?

Tango0124 Jan 2016 9:52 p.m. PST

To close the circle …

Shocking martyrdom video emerges of ISIS Paris attackers carrying out beheadings as they threaten massacres in the West – and make it clear the UK is next on their target list

"* ISIS have released a video showing the Paris attackers preparing in Syria
* The fighters are each shown beheading a prisoner and giving a speech
* Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the mastermind of the attacks calls for attacks
* The video ends with footage of London and threat of an attack in the UK
* Sickening moment fighter smiles after beheading prisoner and says: 'Soon in Champs-Elysees'

ISIS have released a barbaric propaganda video showing the Paris attackers beheading prisoners and training with weapons before they carried out the city massacre which left 130 people dead.

The video features threats from Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the mastermind of the attacks, and also shows each of the other militants carrying out a horrific execution.

The video finishes with the jihadi group issuing a threat to carry out their next terror attack in the UK in reaction to Britain's decision to carry out airstrikes in Syria…"

picture

Full article here
link

One has to wonder on how many more of these monsters have made their way to the West.

Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2016 9:46 a.m. PST

I hope they find "Paradise" a lot warmer then they imagined … I like the way some US agencies, units, etc., do it. They place a red diagonal strip across the pic. Showing the monster is dead …

Lion in the Stars25 Jan 2016 10:19 a.m. PST

Good going on the French/Belgians (and everyone else playing kill-a-DAESH-bag), only two left to kill and it's only been 3 months.

Not going to weep for the deaths of these monsters, they're nothing more than rabid dogs and need to be treated as such. Killed on sight because they are too dangerous to let live.

Tango0125 Jan 2016 10:46 a.m. PST

Agree!

Amicalement
Armand

Tango0118 Mar 2016 12:57 p.m. PST

Closing the gap…

"Paris Attack Suspect And The World's Most Wanted Man Salah Abdeslam Has Been 'Arrested' In Brussels"

"* Salah Abdeslam shot in the leg and captured alive by police commandos
* The 26-year-old was wounded then 'retreated into a house in Molenbeek'
* Terror suspect was with two other men and one of the men 'may be dead'
* Abdeslam believed to have played key role in Paris attacks and had been on run for 126 days

The world's most wanted man, a prime suspect in the Paris terrorist attacks, has been wounded and captured in a police raid in Brussels.

Salah Abdeslam was shot in the leg by police commandos and has been arrested in the district of Molenbeek in the Belgian capital.

The country's minister for asylum and migration, Theo Francken, confirmed the capture this afternoon announcing: 'We got him'…"
Main page
link

Game over!

Amicalement
Armand

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