IronDuke596 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 28 Oct 2015 11:04 a.m. PST |
I have just recently started my research into the Battle of Bladensburg for a future war game. However, I have not found any descriptions or depictions of D.C. militia flags and few for Maryland and Virginia. The 'Flag Dude' has flags for Maryland and the 2nd Virginia regiment. One of he Maryland flags is a yellow and block diamond and rectangle shapes and the other has a white back ground with and eagle spread winged with a scroll above it containing the words United We Stand. The Virginia flags; one has a white background and very large eagle with one wing pointed down and one up with a shield on its chest. Two scrolls below it with top one "2nd Regt." and the bottom one "Virginai Infantry. The second Virginia flag: the top one quarter has a white background with an eagle spread winged clutching a shield with a scroll running horizontal with Liberty on the left and Independence on the right part of the scroll., the bottom 3/4ths has red stripes. I have no information on DC flags regarding the units of the Columbian Brigade. I have checked Chartrands book"A Most Warlike Appearance" but it has little information on these states. However, other states such as PA and NY adopted the state flag/motto. Could this be the case for Virginai, Maryland and DC? Does anyone have any further information or better still images of Maryland, Virginia and DC militia flags? Thanks in advance. |
NappyBuff | 29 Oct 2015 4:43 a.m. PST |
This is a difficult topic as there is little information out there, but that being said, see if you can find the book: Uniforms and Equipment of the United States Forces in the War of 1812 by René Chartrand Or the newer book: A Most Warlike Appearance: Uniforms, Flags and Equipment of the United States in the War of 1812 by René Chartrand |
John the OFM | 29 Oct 2015 8:05 a.m. PST |
Until something better comes along, I would consider the flag of the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Although it was first incorporated into a flag in 1861 in the Civil war, the seal itself was designed in 1776. linkIn fact I would not hesitate to incorporate this seal into an AWI flag, the iconography being established. It represents the Roman goddess Virtue slaying a crowned tyrant. Appropriate for the War of 1812, methinks. |
John the OFM | 29 Oct 2015 8:11 a.m. PST |
As for Maryland, another fall back design is the flag incirporating the arms of Calvert, Lord Baltimore.
I have seen battle flags using the complete design, and also either quarter. This is all plausible guesswork, until something better comes aloing. ![grin grin](boards/icons/grin.gif) |
IronDuke596 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 29 Oct 2015 9:42 a.m. PST |
Nappy Buff; yes, as stated I checked those references but thanks for taking the time to reply. John; many thanks for your replies and the flags. Re Virginia that is a good compromise and your logic makes sense. I will see if the Flag Dude will replicate it. Re Maryland, the Flag Dude's version incorporates the upper left canton as the Maryland state flag. So far there is much "plausible guesswork" as you sate, but it is better than nothing at all. This is definitely an area that needs further research. Hopefully, there will be more ideas on this board. |
Winston Smith | 29 Oct 2015 10:07 a.m. PST |
The Flag Dude probably already has it in the ACW line. |
rmaker | 29 Oct 2015 12:13 p.m. PST |
Have you checked with the Maryland and DC Historical Societies? |
John the Greater | 29 Oct 2015 2:04 p.m. PST |
I would go with the black and yellow for Maryland. The red and white cross was adopted during the Civil War by the Confederate Maryland units. I'm not sure about the Virginia flags. |
IronDuke596 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 29 Oct 2015 2:17 p.m. PST |
I checked the Maryland Historical Society web site..no luck but will try sending them an email. I have not yet checked the DC Historical Society…if there is such a group. |
Jimmy da Purple | 29 Oct 2015 4:20 p.m. PST |
I have contacted the Maryland Historical Society before on this, and they had no info. I have been having the same issues. |
Mike O | 30 Oct 2015 3:48 a.m. PST |
Olivier Millet's War of 1812 blog has a Stars and Stripes flag used by a Maryland militia regiment at the Battle of North Point: link His entry on Bladensburg has a US cavalry militia flag: link (NB: no idea why he includes the picture of the uniform and flag of the British 7th Foot as they don't seem to have been at Bladensberg) One of his entries on Maryland militia includes the arms of Calvert and Crossland State flag: link However the wiki entry claims only the black and gold/yellow Calvert arms were associated with Maryland at the time: link |
John the Greater | 30 Oct 2015 6:43 a.m. PST |
There is an excellent DC Historical Society. I should have told you right away to contact them. dchistory.org |
Winston Smith | 30 Oct 2015 9:38 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the enlightenment and correction, John the Greater. |
Tricorne1971 | 31 Oct 2015 8:48 p.m. PST |
Looking at the Maryland Historical Society's 1812 Exhibit – the original painting by Thomas Ruckle (who was there), The Battle of North Point, shows a standard US blue flag with eagle that was carried as the US regiment's national color. The unit carrying the color is probably the Md militia. Another Ruckle painting of North Point (The Defense of Baltimore – Assembling of the Troops), shows Md militia with no colors. Stars and Stripes were not carried by US units. However, another part (fuzzy in the background)of the painting shows a line of blue uniformed troops in the distance with a stars and stripes. Very unusual. I spent a lot of time examining the originals. These paintings on various web pages are not very clear. |
IronDuke596 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 01 Nov 2015 5:50 a.m. PST |
Yeah, Olivier meant this flag to be for the 21st Fusiliers (correct in his OOB) not the 7th. Re the dchistory site; I couldn't find anything on the site but have submitted a request through their email contact address. Re the Ruckle Painting; I had a hard time picking out any details too. The unit you describe as "a line of blue uniformed troops in the distance with a stars and stripes." may be Virginia troops. The 2nd Virginia regiment (described above) has red and white bars but no stars in the upper canton. The search continues. Many thanks for the replies to date. |
Dashetal | 03 Nov 2015 9:49 p.m. PST |
Has the flag dude recovered from his accident? He isn't responding to his email and his site still says he is recovering. So I would not expect him to make Fall In. |
IronDuke596 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 04 Nov 2015 10:06 a.m. PST |
I hope he is better. He has not responded to my email as well. However, Flag Dude is listed as part of vendors for Fall In. |
IronDuke596 ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 04 Nov 2015 10:22 a.m. PST |
I received a response from the Kiplinger Library, which is responding on behalf of the DC Historical Society for my query. The volunteer research librarian could not provide any specifics but sent me two links that she thought might help. William M. Marine's The British Invasion of Maryland, 1812-1815 (1913) This is a book that is available full text on Google Books: books.google.com/books? id=zUEvAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22british+invasion+of+maryland%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAGoVChMI94X_uN70yAIVS9QeCh3VMwn2#v=onepage&q=%22british%20invasion%20of%20maryland%22&f=false This is an article in a journal Todd, F. P.. (1948). The Militia and Volunteers of the District of Columbia 1783-1820. Records of the Columbia Historical Society, Washington, D.C., 50, 379–439. Retrieved from jstor.org/stable/40067335 or link Be sure to check the bibliography of this article. The first reference I already have as part of War of 1812 CD set from the Emperors Library it is a short history of both battles and list of most units, most with a roll of those who were there. Not very much on uniforms and flags though. The second reference I had not seen before. It is an article written for the DC historical society. You may recognize his name in conjunction with the Company of Military Historians, so, his information is certainly credible. Todd points to a dearth of information on flags and uniforms, however, the listing of all volunteer units and the organization of the DC legions/brigades is very good. There are many instances of units being presented with colors but no details. Also interesting is that the volunteer infantry (as opposed to the enrolled militia who formed the center companies) were organized as light infantry and grenadier companies along with the various artillery and cavalry units. The search continues. |
Vincent Solfronk | 07 Nov 2015 9:35 a.m. PST |
The idea of a "state flag" didn't really catch on until later in the 19th Century a/o the ACW. Since most state militias seriously copied the federal regulations (and uniforms), you can't really go wrong using the United States flag colors (blue for the "army" colors, and "buff" for the regiment). Note that buff can range from anything from off-white/white to nearly yellow. Use the state's emblem to replace the federal eagle. For my state militia units, I used the states emblem on a blue field such as New York. For my mtd KT militia I also included a "Remember the River Raisin" flag. The regimental flags can be much more personalized since very few of those exist. |