"What can you tell me about Krieg ohne Hass Rules?" Topic

A simple, fast playing set of rules for WW2 to cover Divisional, Corps or Army level combat in 1:200-1:600. A fast play set of wargames rules for Divisional and Corps level battles using a square gridded tabletop that regulates movement and does away with any micro-measurement. No record keeping required during the game. Specifically designed for more mobile armoured warfare using 1/200th through to 1/600th miniatures. Uses a flexible basing system and only D6 are needed to play. Take to the battlefield with all your Divisional and Corps assets available and in the right place! A four foot square table gives a battlefield of about 144 square miles in which to exercise all arms tactics in a fast moving and lethal environment to truly test your powers of Generalship!

Has anyone played them? What mechanics are there? I don't mind a gridded table, so that isn't a problem.

What does a base equal, how is C3 handled, combat etc.

Thanks

Sorry, never heard of them before.

Me neither – and that takes some work.

That said, they are available from Magister Militum…

Is the title a reference to something? It sounds like it's supposed to be the title of a book or film or something.

Super large scale gaming is interesting though. May have to give them a glance.

Krieg Ohne Haß is the title of a book of Erwin Rommel's memoirs about the North Africa campaign. (No, I haven't read it…)

- Ix

A Google search turns up a little more info about these rules here on TMP courtesy of Lance Flint. Is he the author?

From this thread:

If you want fast play at a large scale, and the command of a Division suits you then Krieg ohne Hass might suit?
Two models/stands/bases to a battalion, no record keeping, everything on table – even artillery!
Lance.oo

And from this thread:

It's a bit late, but better late than never!
They are wargames rules, primarily designed for 10mm down to 3 mm miniatures for fighting Divisional scale battles.
Fast play, no record keeping and grid based to speed play and eliminate all micro measurement.
Scaled at one base of figures to 25 vehicles or about 250 men they focus on the all arms battle.
Available from a magister Militum for £7.50 GBP GBP
Persevere with the a search, they are there! Go in through WW 2 , Rules to find them.
Hopefully you will have chance to enjoy.
Regards, Lance.

Sounds too abstract for me, and since this scale of WWII wargaming is already exhaustively covered by 1.83 billion boardgames, I'm not going to clog my shelf with another book I'll never be able to use. If there's ever a cheap PDF, I'd love to see how he approached the high level command decision cycle, logistics, and combined arms.

- Ix

He is the author.

Hi guys, yes it's me, Lance, the author.
Thanks for showing interest. The rules are totally about command decisions relating to a historical range of tactical options available to actual Divisions.
Hopefully not at all abstract, and designed to get more of a feel for Divisional battles on the tabletop with gaming miniatures. Not least those glorious creations from Oddzial Ozmy in 1/600 scale.
They are really designed to fight a 'battleday', or several of them together. Therefore there is no logistical element included, although due to the simple game system design, it would be very easy to overlay your own ideas.
They started off in the Western Desert, circa 41 to 42, then moved on to the Fall of France, as they were periods that attracted our interest and seemed underplayed?
Ultimately they finished as a well rounded WW2 ruleset that have recently been developed into the European Cold War era.
C3 is simply represented by regiment/brigade sized formations having a command stand that is either stationary, and in full Command control if within range of its sub units, or otherwise "Out of Command". In the latter state then unit cohesion, order changing and the ability to call for artillery support are all adversely effected, not totally ruined but suffering significant penalties.
Please feel free to ask away!
Regards, Lance.

Rules very much recommended – in fact I've just finished gridding up a new snow terrain board just for them.

That's really good to hear Hans!
If you need any support for the rules then just drop me a line.
lance.flint59@gmail.com
Regards, Lance.

Hi Lance, ive recently bought these rules and plan to playtest in a WW2 East Front 1941-42 setting (my personal favourite). Im intrigued by your mention of the rules being developed into the 'European Cold War' era…..do you have any further info on this or any other variants?
Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave,
Yes , a very simple concversion, using all of the basic rule systems but with extras to cover ATGWs and improved infantry abilities vs armour, IFVs, etc etc.
The scale changes though to step down one level. So with Kalt Krieg ohne Hass you will usually be a Brigadier, therefore a base of tanks is no longer half a bn but rather a company, that is, scaled to 8 to 12 actual vehicles.
The update for this if free on the 3mm and 6mm yahoo groups, but I can send you a copy direct?
Regarding early Eastern Front, I would have all a Soviets as Inferior, Panzers as Superior along with Schutzen etc. this does make the Reds struggle with Iniative, changing orders and calling for artillery support, though certainly not shy to mix it up close with the Germans. Clarify your tank units within period, so that all values are relative to the actual vehicles involved. This probably means that most medium Panzers will now be medium armour but still light guns?
Anyway, enough prattle for now, I hope you enjoy your play testing!
Regards, Lance.

Thanks for the feedback Lance, will take your suggestions onboard :)
Could you send me the modern update to me please, to robertd4@hotmail.co.uk…..will look forward to giving this a go too as I also enjoy Cold War Europe 1960's-80's…
cheers, Dave

Will do Dave. It's very much geared towards NATO vs Soviets in that period.
In fact playing with a W German Panzer Brigade tonight down the club!
Cheers, Lance.

Hi Lance

These sound great. What size are the grid squares and what size are the half battalion bases?

A square represents one square mile for WW2. Simply mark the corners of each with a dot or crosshairs. Terrain also helps to define the grid system.
So your gaming squares can be of any size depending on the size of your troop bases.
We use a base 30mm square for vehicles, with three of these in line being the max frontage within a square. Therefore our squares are either 10 or 12 cms square.
Of course this works well for 3 or 6 mm stuff, larger figure scales would probably need bigger bases and squares.
At 1/600th scale three vehs to a base looks good.
Lance.

Dave, attachments sent tonight, please acknowledge receipt.
Lance.

Just to clarify matters as this link is getting confused.
WW2 Krieg ohne Hass is set at Div level, two bases making a typical battalion of 50 vehs or 500 men, a grid square being one sq mile.
The Cold War supplement, Kalt Krieg ohne Hass is one level down, so Brigade sized, although Div games are still possible. So one base to a coy of 8 to 12 vehs and a grid square now 1 kilometre.
The basic rules are for WW 2 with the supplement covering post war stuff.
Lance.

Is it available as a .pdf or a US distributor?

Unfortunately not. It's very much a small scale and personal venture to simply get a good set of rules out there for gamers!
It is available on ebay at the moment for £7.50 GBP, which includes free postage worldwide.
Alternatively I could send you an electronic file for a smaller fee? This seems to be the way ahead for lots of us to reduce cost and save paper!
Which is the best option for you?
Regards, Lance.

Hi lance, thanks for the responses here. Can you give me an idea of mechanics?

Good to hear a Cold War supplement is available; I've got a T72 division at 1 base to the platoon in the garage, be nice to get a proper Operational Manoeuvre Group going!

Wow, that's a lot of T72's!
So a T72 tank regiment would be nine coy bases plus four command stands.
The rules are fairly unique and fast play, allowing the player to concentrate on tactical options, not least force composition, represented by battle groups, so much more flexible formations than in WW2.
Detail is not crucial, as at this scale what an individual tank does within a company is pretty irrelevant. So the mechanics focus on the significant phases of battle, having the correct basic orders, winning the firefight, taking/holding key terrain, use of reserves and so on. But everything is on table, no record keeping whatsoever, with detail such as tactical stance hidden from the opponent.
Could waffle on for ages, so if you want to select one particular aspect of the mechanics then I can reply more specifically?
Thanks for the interest, Lance.

That tactical stance sounds interested (BTW, messaged my sister in law a link to the Magister page yesterday, as I always say I don't want presents, and said if her and my Brother want to get me that…!)

What's the time scale? How does the tactical stance work – I ran a kriegspiel in which changing orders, even just moving stationary troops, incured a time delay.

How does combat work?

Thanks

(In January, hopefully, I'll be after the Modern supplement from you!)

The tactical stance is indicated by an Order Chit. I use a small mdf base with the order on one side and the other painted cloth colour to keep the order hidden from the opponent.
Orders range from Prepared Attack to Hasty Attack, through Manoeuvre into Hasty Defense, HD1, HD 2, HD3 to Prepared a Defense. Changing orders can be forced on you by enemy action or voluntarily, depending upon the quality of the troops and some other pertinent factors. In other words it's never guaranteed and usually troops will suffer delays in changing orders.
Time scale is quite arbitrary but tends to settle at 30 mins of battle per game turn.
Close Assault is a mix of factors, numbers, quality, all arms cooperation, bombarding artillery, orders and a dice roll. This takes seconds to calculate as rarely will more than half a dozen factors apply. The result represents both close in fire and an attempt to take ground. This generates movement, order changes and losses, some casualties are automatic others as a result of attrition, so a massive attack can still suffer slightly and a superb defence might also suffer.
As infantry and their supports don't fire at all, and based on the scale of the game the Close a Support aspect determines most aggressive intent.
Adjusting to/understanding the basic mechanics is crucial to the game system as many of the sub systems are unique and provide a high level of player inter action. However once grasped a very fast and lively game will result.
The Cold War supplement is free and is only three pages of extra detail and over written factors for the period whilst maintaining all the existing mechanisms.
As always this is difficult to explain in text, but hopefully I have managed to incite some interest?
Feel free to ask for any other detail.
Cheers, Lance.

I might be able to give more feedback 26th December!

It would be welcome!
If you are a good boy then I am sure Santa will deliver?
Cheers, Lance.

Lance

can you email me

Dave

Caliver books

ta

Yes, will do!
Lance.

Krieg ohne Hass are now also available from Caliver Books.
Lance.